Topic: Windows CE

Ok, well, I hope I'm not going to be crucified for suggesting this (as I know most hackers are Open Source zealots, and I really do *not* want to start a flame war), but would anybody be interested in perhaps porting Windows CE to the Chumby?

A lot of you will be sitting there thinking "what's the point? The Chumby has a perfectly decent Linux kernel sitting there" and this is true, but being a hacker myself (and a closed-source loving one at that) I still have  "because I can" attitude towards mods, and I reckon that it'd be cool to get WinCE running on the Chumby.

There is a lot of software for the PocketPC operating system out there, and the .NET platform allows RAD for Windows CE with ease, so the Chumby would make a brilliant device for prototyping your embedded device ideas.

Would anybody be interested in attempting to "port" Windows CE to the Chumby? There is a native StrongARM version of Windows CE, the only problem would be display controller drivers, USB-Host support etc.

Any ideas? Any heads up?

Re: Windows CE

Ok, well the reason so many people really favor open source is because its just that, the source is open and you can do what ever you want within the terms of the licensing. With closed source you, 1: don't have the source to work with unless you pay the company much more money than i ever think i will have and 2: i'm thinking it would be copyright infringment to do much more than use it on the device it was made for. I have yet to really look at any hardware specs for the Chumby, but if it turns out the inards are really no/not very different than a pocketpc i'm sure you could do this, but i don't think you will be able to legally get windows ce on this device unless they are extremely similar. I'd love for you to prove me wrong though ^_^

Re: Windows CE

Well, there is no restriction to the hardware that you can run Windows CE on, and nothing in the licencing agreement preventing us from trying to load Windows CE on the Chumby. Of course, if you were to sell a Chumby with Windows CE loaded, that would be against the EULA, but I'm suggesting using the Chumby as a prototyping platform for RAD. There is a Windows CE development kit you could use, the only forseeable problem is hardware support.

The fact that Windows CE is closed source is negligable for this purpose - it'd be interesting to see what we can do with the hardware provided.

Free batch of cookies for the first person to get Solaris to boot on a Chumby! =P

Re: Windows CE

Obviously, we can't condone a project that requires breaking the license for another company's product.

We certainly don't want Microsoft coming down on us, so if this is not consistent with their licensing, I guess our Official Company Position is:

"Please don't do that"

If you obtain the necessary rights to do a port of Windows CE from Microsoft, then we have no problem.

5 (edited by silent_guardian 2006-08-28 17:14:32)

Re: Windows CE

Duane wrote:

Obviously, we can't condone a project that requires breaking the license for another company's product.

We certainly don't want Microsoft coming down on us, so if this is not consistent with their licensing, I guess our Official Company Position is:

"Please don't do that"

If you obtain the necessary rights to do a port of Windows CE from Microsoft, then we have no problem.

Windows has a Windows CE SDK for developing hardware compatibile with Windows CE. Getting the Chumby certified for Windows CE/Selling a Chumby with Windows CE loaded would require collaboration with Microsoft, but Microsoft provides a development kit for both ARM and x86. It is available both under the MSDN licence, and there is a 120 day evaluation kit that anyone can use to develop Windows CE compatible software/hardware.

EDIT: I'm sorry, I didn't want to seem too direct with this post: I understand that you have business interests to protect, and if this doesn't follow them, then that's cool, but it doesn't break the WinCE EULA, so if you guys aren't gunna cease and decist, when I get my chumby, I'll get to porting wink

Re: Windows CE

You can't have ported Windows Embedded my friend - Windows NT4 and XP embedded run only on the x86 architechure, and the Chumby is ARM

Re: Windows CE

OMG you got told tongue

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Re: Windows CE

You could just take a look at reactOS...uses QEMU to run windows processes, but its completely open source. It isn't quite there yet, but take a look!

http://www.reactos.org

Re: Windows CE

yeah, but its still alpha, and probably hogs resources.

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Re: Windows CE

Actually, from my testing it takes very few resources and is VERY fast, compared to xp, 98, and all other versions of windoze i have ever used.

Re: Windows CE

its still not really a possibility for chumby. its written for x86 and ppc, not arm.

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username is chumby
password is chumby

Re: Windows CE

OK. Well, it would still be easier than porting windows ce, which is copyrighted, and the source isn't open. ReactOS is open, free, and the liscense wouldn't be broken if someone modded it and ported it to the chumby.

Re: Windows CE

ReactOS was designed to be compatible to Windows NT. Not exactly an embedded system.

And while Windows NT was designed to be somehow portable (MIPS and Alpha ?) ReactOS works only on x86 processors and I suspect it would not be too easy to port it to an ARM.

And yes, ReactOS is open and free but, I have to ask, what's wrong with Linux again ? smile

Re: Windows CE

zlnetworks wrote:

not so windows embedded and ce can be tailored to almost any processer.Join MSDN and don't be a windows n00b like you are now.....

No it can't - Windows CE is available for ARM and x86, and Windows Embedded is x86 only. You don't get source for Windows CE, so unless you are an assembeler GOD (and I mean this, if you can do it, I will fly to wherever you live in the world and bow before your ASM hacking skills, and feel free to hold me to it!) with no wife and kids, and don't have responsibilities, like healing in Naxx/BWL (and you break the law by not using clean-room reverse engineering) there is no practical way of "tailoring" it to any processor.

I joined MSDN, by the way, I've had a subscription since 2001 (I find it's cheaper to get an MSDN subscription for Visual Studio etc. than it is to seperatley purchase all the applications I need for testing software I develop), but I'm still a Windows noob sad

There is no real need to "port" Windows CE, as such. The only concern to worry about would be driver support, and I don't think this would be much of a problem (and drivers aren't impossible to write, just a little tedious)

The ReactOS bootloader is written in x86 assembeler, as far as I know. My intention was not to bring Windows compatibility to the Chumby, but to use it as a prototyping board for Windows CE applications.

Why port WinCE? Because we can. From what I can see, the Chumby is a very nice peice of hardware, and would make a perfect prototyping board for Windows Embedded applications.

15 (edited by ilikenwf 2006-09-07 08:19:53)

Re: Windows CE

Why couldn't you just use something like icewm or kde to emulate the feel of windoze in linux, then?

No copyright infringement, no troubles. Just port it, skin it, and boom! With touch sensitivity, you've got it! Just run it off a flash drive.

Re: Windows CE

silent_guardian, stop replying to him. he is lying. and he doesnt like chumby anymore. read his website.

need upload space for the forums or a chumby blog? right here then
http://www.nophus.com/useru
username is chumby
password is chumby

Re: Windows CE

Who? It isn't me! I am a chumby-less n00b to all this, with a few novel ideas for the device.

Re: Windows CE

^^

never said it was

silent_guardian, stop replying to him

need upload space for the forums or a chumby blog? right here then
http://www.nophus.com/useru
username is chumby
password is chumby