Topic: Widget archive

So, hopefully well in advance of the inevitable (?) moment when the chumby servers go dark for the last time:

Would there be any interest in putting together some sort of archive of the non-commercial chumby widgets somewhere so that people running the offline firmware can get them?

Re: Widget archive

better to put together a downloader so everyone can make an archive of their own.
fairly easy to do so and more legal.

Re: Widget archive

Actually I'm kinda curious about the legalities.  Obviously just going ahead and re-distributing Pandora or Twitter Inc's software would be a terrible idea.  But: did chumby's widget submission process involve giving them an exclusive license?  If not, if the widget authors themselves wanted to make them publicly available they certainly could.

(I have a friend or two at Pandora, and I am going to see if I can't get them to bless a closed-source standalone distro of their widget...)

Re: Widget archive

pandora is not a widget. its a music source which relies on chumby's pandora server. like iheartradio/nyt podcasts etc. in other words unless you run a local pandora server its game over for all music sources which rely on the chumby backend post shutdown.

Re: Widget archive

By agreeing to the Chumby TOS, widget authors granted the company nonexclusive rights to redistribute the widgets.

The rights are assignable under certain limited circumstances - an acquisition of the service, or the special circumstances under which the Sony service split was done.

Someone else that's completely independent of Chumby wanting to redistribute the widgets would have to obtain those same rights from the authors.

About a quarter of the widgets belong to Chumby itself.

Pandora is covered by a contract with Chumby - to continue that would require some entity that's capable of negotiating and entering a similar contract.

Re: Widget archive

the other thing to consider besides the purely legal aspects are the fact that the vast majority of widgets are absolute crap. a lot of widget authors have also lost access to source code (they had it on an old HDD, it blew up etc). some are not even contactable. a lot of widgets have external dependencies on chumby.com or its APIs. its better to select a few widgets you like, contact the authors for source code (a lot of them will provide if they have it) and redistribution rights, then patch those widgets to work in offline mode with no network available. if you cant get source code you will have to patch the flash file manually using a hex decompiler which is non trivial.
post shutdown, its highly unlikely pandora / iheartradio etc will stay functional. also a large chunk of widgets will cease to function altogether unless patched with no external dependencies regardless of whether you have a backup copy or not. and finding the widget authors will be very difficult or impossible.
hence its better for you to download and work with a few widgets. i dont think most ppl have more than 10-20 widgets max they really like or use anyway. 
i hope chumby will post up the source code for its php server files and control panel swf before shutdown. that would make life a lot easier to integrate new functionality and fix the broken music sources post shutdown. i would also like to develop an overlay clock for the c8 like the c1 has.

Re: Widget archive

zurk wrote:

i hope chumby will post up the source code for its php server files and control panel swf before shutdown. that would make life a lot easier to integrate new functionality and fix the broken music sources post shutdown.

Amen to that.

Re: Widget archive

dr_memory wrote:
zurk wrote:

i hope chumby will post up the source code for its php server files and control panel swf before shutdown. that would make life a lot easier to integrate new functionality and fix the broken music sources post shutdown.

Amen to that.

Seconded.

Duane, I know there are legal issues but as the Chumby is built on open foundations it should be doable to transition form a central server to decentralized. Any TOS and legal hassle are going to be worked around to make them non issues.  Zurks efforts are a great example. For myself I think that my chumby devices (a pair of info 3.5s I got off amazon for 20$ a piece) are amazing linux boxes that have a neat user facing solution. Should the user facing solution go bye bye it is still a great little linux box.

Given the recent news and where things are heading I am going to focus on those efforts that will allow the devices to run independent of of any central server.

Believe in the Users
Onward.

Re: Widget archive

I would personally be supportive of releasing pretty much everything as Open Source, such as the Control Panel and server code.  It would probably need to be scrubbed first of certain things that are covered by contract (ie API keys, etc.) but in principle it's quite possible.

There is actually only one piece of code in the device that Chumby cannot theoretically release source code for, and that's the Adobe Flash Lite Player.

However, the only people that can authorize a source code release are the Chumby trustees.  I don't have that authority - at this point, I'm not very different than you in terms of rights, since I'm no longer an employee.

The stuff I (and a few other people) have been doing for the last few months has been purely maintenance of the assets to the status quo - I cannot do anything that materially changes them without permission.

In other words, I've been simply continuing, to the best of my ability, what Chumby would have normally been doing at the time the trustees took control - helping users with problems with their accounts, registering and deregistering devices, etc.  Not all support emails have gone unanswered - things I *can* do I've done.

There are normal operating functions that I *can't* do - for instance, I have no access to the inventory of devices, so folks with apparently bad power supplies or SD cards (the vast bulk of the "physical" problems people are having, but fortunately not the larger fraction of total problems) are not supportable by me.

Things like releasing more source code is something I *can't* do, as much as I'd like to, since I don't own it except for my own 50 or so widgets.

We do have a plan for a peer-to-peer version of the Chumby ecosystem, that would allow the propagation of widgets without any dependency upon the back end services - sort of like zurk's system but more sophisticated in that authors could still publish widgets and users could manage them from their devices.  That actually is something we could do *without* Chumby's permission, as zurk has done - but it's a matter of finding the time to do it.

Re: Widget archive

By the way, if I've seemed cagey or unresponsive over the last few months about all this, be assured that it was not by choice.

Now that this information has come out through other means, I am a bit more free to comment.

Re: Widget archive

Duane wrote:

There is actually only one piece of code in the device that Chumby cannot theoretically release source code for, and that's the Adobe Flash Lite Player.

Is that at least still theoretically distributable as-is?  (I'm guessing "no" and "ha ha ha no" from the complete lack of download/licensing info on adobe's site about embedded/lite flash, but I guess I could be surprised.)

Alternatively... gnash?  Although I always sorta assumed that if gnash had been anywhere near production-ready you would have been long since using it.

Re: Widget archive

The contract with Adobe requires that the player be distributed only as part of a full firmware image, not as a separate binary, except for closed testing purposes.

One could create a firmware update that does not include the Flash binary, that stores it away somewhere else on the device (in RAM for instance) while the rest of the firmware is updated, then put it back.

Gnash is not appropriate for this device - it's built from a mish-mash of other libraries and stuff and ends up having device requirements far in excess of what a Chumby can support.