Topic: Thin client

Cos chumby runs linux and all, would it be possible to run it as a thin client? you know, for when you want to do somethin a little more cpu intensive? cos im not sure if 233mhz is enough for running a 320x240 video, although i shouldnt see why not. the Ipod Videos run with less.

Whats the chances of being able to use Ipod-Linux source? cos they run on an ARM cpu aswell. it would mean there would be more stuff to run on the Chumby.

Oh, and any chance of a small web browser? i know theres no keyboard, but if you say used a del.icio.us account, you could just click links. it wouldnt be too bad for reading Web-Email, and viewing some sites.

Not sure if firefox would run in 233mhz, but i can run opera on my phone, which has a 233mhz processor, so shouldnt see why not.

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Re: Thin client

Opera Mini comes for a few different platforms, like J2ME and Microsoft, but the source is closed so porting to linux would be a problem. Also, chumby doesn't have Java, so it couldn't be run through that. Even if it could be, it would be pointless because the interface would be inaccessable without a keypad. The best bet would be for someone to port Mozilla or Konqueror to the platform.

Another possibility would be to have a WAP browser. WAP pages are designed for cell phones, so they have less memory and input requirements than traditional websites. And there is a growing number of WAP sites around, so a browser would be very useful.

As for the iPod Linux stuff, even if the processor is the same, the screen, input devices, internet, etc. are so different that it would be no use to port iPod Linux apps over.

Re: Thin client

It should also be noted that the iPod's SoC has a dual-core ARM7 implementation (along with a lot of other hardware specific to the platform) both running at ~80MHz with a variable clock to save power, where the Chumby has a bare ARM9 (Freescale MX (21?)) running at 266MHz (making the Chumby significantly more powerful as a computing platform, but also significantly more power hungry).

The easiest thing to do, I think, would be to write a cheesy browser-like application in the Flash-layer, loading bookmarks from your PC via Bonjour if you have a Bonjour-enabled browser (like Safari), or by RSS feed (for everyone else, though I personally would prefer the simplicity of Bonjour).

Lastly, most of the applications for iPod-Linux would be relatively easy to port to this device, though input control would have to be completely rethought. Unless you use a USB controller or design one of your own, you're on your own. You might be able to do some things via the touchscreen, but don't count on that being very fun for iPod Doom.

On the other hand, memory games like Bop-it (only with on-screen buttons) would be a lot of fun to play on the chumby on a road trip.

Re: Thin client

sounds like a plan. you could rip things like history, themes, bookmarks. all unnecessary stuff, just have a browser that run a specific page (hell, you could specify that in a text file and modify it via ssh).

also, i shouldnt see why you couldnt have a small onscreen keyboard. use something like wheelboard (where you have two buttons. 1 with a-m on it, and with with n-z on it, then you select one. so if you selected a-m, the buttons change to a-f and f-m. and so on.)

or you could usb HID (although that does defeat the purpose of chumby)

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Re: Thin client

There is actually an embedded distribution of Firefox available for this purpose.

Positioning the Chumby (or using it, I should say) as a thin client is the thing I am most interested in. The rdesktop project (http://www.rdesktop.com) is a nice implimentation of the Microsoft Remote Desktop Protocol (MS-RDP), and it wouldn't be impossible to use VNC.

As far as Citrix goes, I don't believe there is an open-source implimention, so YMMV.

Re: Thin client

yeah but Rdesktop isnt a thin client. a thin client is where you run a limited o/s on the device, and all the processing is shoved onto another computer. you dont control the other computer, you just process on it.

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Re: Thin client

yes. sure you do. and i run windows vista on my apple newton.

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Re: Thin client

pics?

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Re: Thin client

chedabob wrote:

yeah but Rdesktop isnt a thin client. a thin client is where you run a limited o/s on the device, and all the processing is shoved onto another computer. you dont control the other computer, you just process on it.

Not nessasarily. Rdesktop is a terminal services client for Windows Terminal Services (not just Remote Desktop, which only allows one client). I'd call the Chumby OS a "limited" OS, and using Terminal Services, you are putting all the processing onto another machine, and you'd only be using the Chumby as a "dumb terminal" (if I can use old-school lingo) for the Windows Terminal Server.

The only forseeable trap I can see here, is the fact that rdesktop requires X, and I don't believe the Chumby is running an X Server.

@ zlnetworks - As I mentioned in a previous forum post, unless you're running Windows CE on your Chumby, you're not running Windows on it at all. If you're running Windows Embedded, you're running it on an x86 processor. XPE and NTE both mandate an x86 processor, and the Chumby is ARM.

Re: Thin client

why not run an xserver on chumby? and then either connect locally, or to a remote one?

somebody could modify the latest ubuntu live cd, so its simple enough to set up a thin client server.

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Re: Thin client

That's true, but most end users don't want to install Linux (but then again, most end users don't really have use for a thin-client solution on their Chumby!)

That'd be possible, it'd also be possible to use VNC, though that's hardly a legitimate tactic wink

12 (edited by chedabob 2006-09-05 02:08:24)

Re: Thin client

you wouldnt have to install linux. run it off a live cd. hell, you could possibly run it in vmware player (shouldnt see why we couldnt legally distribute the files).

EDIT:

http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT7499590573.html

if what i read is right, they provide thin client servers that run off the internet. it might be a good idea to give them a shout, see if they have anything to offer.


just out of curiousity, could you run ubuntu on chumby? i know you would need to make the UI smaller, but is the possibility there? i love ubuntu, its a shame my college course requires me to use winblows.

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Re: Thin client

Again, most end users don't want to run VMWare, nor do they want to use a LiveCD. If you had a specific application of a Thin Client solution in mind, we might be able to hack something together using Cygwin. Packaging this into a one click installer package would be easier than running a LiveCD, and would also be less resource intensive.

Is there something that you specifically had in mind?

Re: Thin client

not anything specific, i just thought it would be a way to get a bit more processing power for chumby, and to open it up for a wider variety of applications. RUnning vmware player isnt too difficult. its just a matter of install and run. no faffing. if you ran ubuntu in the software, all you would theoretically need on the chumby would be a pxe booter, with some wi-fi support. a small low-level linux distro would probably be good enough. you could possibley have this running as an alternate boot on the retail chumby, so that normal users boot straight to chumby o/s , but with a simple tap of the screen, more experienced users could run the pxe boot software. it might make it a bit easier for hacking.

i shouldnt see why you couldnt run ubuntu on chumby though, cos you can get Debain For ARM, and chumby is based off debian, so its definitely a possibility. im sure ubuntu supports touch screens, so it would be an interesting project.

having a dual boot would be a little better for advanced people. im sure you could port GRUB, then just have that on bootup, with say a 5 second no-response delay.

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Re: Thin client

Computer_Kid wrote:
chedabob wrote:

Not sure if firefox would run in 233mhz, but i can run opera on my phone, which has a 233mhz processor, so shouldnt see why not.

I used firefox on a 100mhz machine before, it wasn't the fastest, but it worked.

It's possible to strip some unessisary stuff from the source.  Some things (extentions, etc...) arn't needed for this.

The company I work for, Linpro in Norway (www.linpro.no), offers a thin client distro which is approx. 32MB and includes a firefox web browser plus support for ICA, RDP, 3270, X11 and NX.
It's called Multiframe (www.multiframe.net) and it's main purpose is to prolong the life of older PCs by converting them to thin clients. We have customers running 100Mhz PCs as Multiframe thin clients.
The newest version, 3 (due later this month), is based on a 2.6 kernel, including x.org 7.1 and it has wlan support.

Could be fun to try to install it on the Chumby, I will ask for one of the prototypes... :-)

-Christopher

Re: Thin client

sounds interesting. its whether your distro would support the touchscreen, and all of chumbys hardware. its deffo a possibility though. id love to run a thin client. i run linux on my xbox so i could probably run the server on that.

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Re: Thin client

grenness wrote:
Computer_Kid wrote:
chedabob wrote:

Not sure if firefox would run in 233mhz, but i can run opera on my phone, which has a 233mhz processor, so shouldnt see why not.

I used firefox on a 100mhz machine before, it wasn't the fastest, but it worked.

It's possible to strip some unessisary stuff from the source.  Some things (extentions, etc...) arn't needed for this.

The company I work for, Linpro in Norway (www.linpro.no), offers a thin client distro which is approx. 32MB and includes a firefox web browser plus support for ICA, RDP, 3270, X11 and NX.
It's called Multiframe (www.multiframe.net) and it's main purpose is to prolong the life of older PCs by converting them to thin clients. We have customers running 100Mhz PCs as Multiframe thin clients.
The newest version, 3 (due later this month), is based on a 2.6 kernel, including x.org 7.1 and it has wlan support.

Could be fun to try to install it on the Chumby, I will ask for one of the prototypes... :-)

-Christopher

Very cool!

I'm a big fan of Thin-client technologies wink

RDP is what I'm most interested in, but I'm willing to help you guys with implimenting anything. X11 would be cool, as far as remote processing is concerned.

18 (edited by neg2led 2006-09-07 19:55:53)

Re: Thin client

I like the idea of running an X server on a seperate machine and just running the X client on the Chumby. I wonder if there is such thing as a Windows X server?

[UPDATE] Turns out there is. http://x.cygwin.com/. [/UPDATE]. The [UPDATE] tags serve no purpose but are neat.

Maybe a customized installation could be made? You could shove Cygwin, the required Cygwin packages, Cygwin/X, and a custom set of configurations on a CD that comes with the Chumby, and shove a lightweight X viewer / VNC thing onboard the chumby. Call it the 'Chumby Enhancement Server Software'.

Even better, make it a custom virtual machine using Bochs or similar, and have it hide in the background. Then you could include a number of apps and stuff. Or am i getting too complicated?

Perhaps you could take advantage of X-Over-SSH Tunneling? then you could create a custom X application or something.....this is too deep for me.

--neg

hoping for a chumby release before xmas.
every chumby is squishy, except the ones that arent.

Re: Thin client

what if, we had one big humoungous server, bought through profits, that runs everybodys X session?

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Re: Thin client

no, the chumby owner runs the software on his/her PC.

--neg

hoping for a chumby release before xmas.
every chumby is squishy, except the ones that arent.

Re: Thin client

Note that in the X11 world what you call server is the machine that runs the clients and what you call client (the display) is the real server.

...I am just being picky smile

Re: Thin client

Raff is right wink

X is a heavy protocol - running the X protocol over the internet is not a good idea, it's bandwdith intensive.

I don't think it is upto the Chumby server admins to host an X server (X client?) for us, as it's not really going to help their profit margins and, lets face it, it's much better running on the local machine.

Re: Thin client

you're missing what i am saying completely. I NEVER SUGGESTED THAT THE CHUMBY ADMINS SHOULD RUN EVERYBODY'S X SESSION FOR US. i was suggesting a windows package that the USER installs on HIS or HER OWN computer that runs the X session.

--neg

hoping for a chumby release before xmas.
every chumby is squishy, except the ones that arent.

Re: Thin client

^^

could be done with cygwin

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Re: Thin client

Exactly! in combination with the x11.org cygwin package (aka Cygwin/X) big_smile

--neg

hoping for a chumby release before xmas.
every chumby is squishy, except the ones that arent.