26 Reply by tz (edited by tz 2010-09-18 06:19:15)

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Re: Feedback on the beta boards

While I'm struggling, can anyone tell me if there is a source for things like glib, dbus, etc. available as a package to install which are used by a number of other components (bluez, avahi)?

Suggestions for modifications:

Where can I find a LiPo that has a thermistor and fits the 3 pin. - And how can I have it just keep the RTC going - A coin cell would be preferable at least to prevent strange things like e2fsck saying something was last unmounted in the future.

The tplink works well for wifi, but a physically smaller one would be nice.

The joyswitch has a tall female connector - don't populate it by default or move it.

Use a current mirror for the I2C - it tends to make things offboard work better than simple pullups.  http://www.i2cchip.com/constant_current_pullup.html - the BCV62s are tiny, and you can use 10k and the edges will still be a lot cleaner.  An I2C header (gnd SDA SCL 3.3v) would be convenient.

I would lose the arduino headers as well - most aren't the same as the corresponding Atmel chip pin so many shields won't work, and it makes the board larger.  For almost everything I would want I would still have to use an arduino and send the info to the board (hence my desire for bluetooth - e.g. J1850 data for my Harley).

(edits) A bluetooth serial slave (3.3v) module on a breakout that connects to the header, setup with the baud rate flashed to 115200 would lose the serial cable.  http://www.mdfly.com/index.php?main_pag … ucts_id=63  BT USB adapters (for a pc) are cheaper than most cables.

The LCD header is useless without an LCD that plugs directly in - I don't want to have to wire a pile of spaghetti to connect it. 

I don't know about the touchscreen or bend - if those are analog inputs just use them as such for sensors.

Xwindows to NTSC and USB (or bluetooth) HID (keyboard/mouse) would be convenient.  Apparently there is fbsplash and fbwrite but they don't seem to work with the video output.

Or maybe just Xvnc or some other kind of vnc to a virtual FB - there are vnc viewers for smartphones.

27 Reply by tz

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Re: Feedback on the beta boards

This might be the archive used for the original microSD image for the hackerboard:
http://forum.chumby.com/viewtopic.php?pid=31177#p31177
I mounted it via loopback on my linux and it has the broken (overlapping) partition table.
Fixing the first allows gparted to be used to move and resize all but the first partition.

What is the format of the first partition, and could it be made smaller besides just being fixed?

  • Registered: 2010-09-04
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Re: Feedback on the beta boards

ChrisP wrote:

My first suggestion is to add a 5V signal to the 44 pin "LCD" connector so that you can provide power to the hackerboard from an add on board without using the barrel connector (JP300).  Another suggestion is to make the expansion pins much more fault tolerant.  The I/O are not even 5 volt tolerant but I am thinking that these pins should have some over voltage and ESD protection.  This board is intended to be used by hackers to build all kinds of prototype circuits and they will most certainly connect things to the wrong pins, plug stuff in backwards and at the wrong voltage.  I know the extra protection circuitry will add cost but I think it might be worth it on a hacker board.  I would also like to see board outline dimensions for the drill holes as well as dimension to the expansion connectors to help with making add on boards.  I am creating a base library for the dimensions by using the gerber files but it makes it more difficult.  Also the board outline in the gerber files seems to be for the Chumby one board (Falconwing MP1?), the OEM1b does not have the cutouts on the sides.  I have done nothing but power up my hacker board so I may have more suggestions once I get into it more.

if you're an eagle use, i've made a board that has matching holes/pads for the breakouts. the outline isnt the same but its kinda close. i'm hesitant to post it since its completley untested but proto PCBs will be in next week so you dont have to wait long

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  • Registered: 2010-09-16
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Re: Feedback on the beta boards

I found that the Parallax's Propeller plug

http://www.parallax.com/Store/Microcont … fault.aspx

works fine with the serial port.  Just remove the 3 volt pin on the hacker board and match up Vss.

30 Reply by tz

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Re: Feedback on the beta boards

I soldered 4 wires onto one of those small 3v bluetooth modules (and an LED) - it works well though a breakout with a socket like the propeller above would be better.

31 Reply by andyx (edited by andyx 2010-09-24 19:44:00)

  • Registered: 2010-09-03
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Re: Feedback on the beta boards

So far I've gone through all the tutorials over at adafrut.

I modified a TTL cable for the serial connection using teraterm
I swapped out the SD with a 4g one.
I also have a keyboard and mouse on it.
Lion Battery with resister.

The video out is connected to a standard NTSC video in LCD screen which lives over my scope.  The cable mapping means my red and yellow outputs had to be swapped.

All the tutorials were very well done.  The i2c tutorial was especially nice.

There is a wireless usb, a volume control for the audio output and a microphone.  Also played with wired network connector.

In the back is a usb hub with the keyboard, mouse and other flash drives.

Extra ext3 formatted usb 4g stick with source.  The ext3 is so that symbolic links can used by makes.  I tend to keep as little source as possible on the SD card so I can swap out to SD cards with a kernel hack or one of my own not working right kernels.  On my bench PC I also setup ubuntu to cross compile, but I've had some problem getting the built kernel to function.  I'll get back to that at some point.  The other flash is FAT I use to sneaker net larger files or to boot run debugchumby scripts.

I've gotten SDL Quake running and the QT browser which both work with the keyboard and mouse just fine.  I've recently had a problem with the framebuffer driver resetting and not being able to output video from either QT or SDL.  So I am stuck on that.  I need to learn more about the driver.

The flash player seems to always work right and any swf files I've run work.  Note that since most use the touch screen I've not been able to do much with them.

The on board joy stick I've not used.

Maybe next is to interface with an Arduino. 

I think the headers are not needed.  A simple break out board with headers not already soldered into the board with work well.   This way one or more headers could be added or not at all if only a Tx,Rx,Grd connection to the Arduino is needed.

So far it has been a cool board to play with and my old vi skills came in handy.

Good luck.

Andy

https://doc-04-3o-docs.googleusercontent.com/docs/secure/u2hokv7sfgm7b22teqe8g4870o09rckp/55oslk0f3udgaj679gco7gekjneot2s1/1285372800000/17816980367923819568/17816980367923819568/0BxlMmvvT2IW9NzdjMWIwZGYtMDE0OC00MjViLWI3NDYtNjgyYjRlYzg3NTEw?nonce=d42ujk429hav4&user=17816980367923819568&hash=0t9ppc5po3dp64vtou9re69r4pe02d1ehttps://doc-0c-3o-docs.googleusercontent.com/docs/secure/u2hokv7sfgm7b22teqe8g4870o09rckp/um2s5rtj1knf08tef27ktji2bugtcas9/1285372800000/17816980367923819568/17816980367923819568/0BxlMmvvT2IW9MmQyNTJkZjItZDUxOS00NTg3LWI4ZDEtNTNlOTc4OTRlNGMx?nonce=2hhjbfd5meqi6&user=17816980367923819568&hash=ns2rc2io0d1rr2m8hpqasd520a23s9cr

  • Registered: 2010-09-21
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Re: Feedback on the beta boards

I've only had the board for a couple days, ane haven't done more than playing with the Wifi and testing out the GCC toolchain.  I'd agree with a lot of users, though, that -- for me -- the Arduino headers aren't all that useful and I'd rather seem some headers broken out on top for I2C, SSP/SPI, GPIO, LCD, etc., in one location.  I'd be glad to pay a bit more money to have something with Wifi on board rather than having to use a USB stick -- it's tough to fit in an enclosure! :-) -- or maybe just Ethernet.  Either is great, but I suspect Wifi is going to be more flexible and represents more of a challenge for other people to implement themselves getting the 2.4GHz right.  It could be helpful to toss in a cable for the LIPO connector since they can be manufactured for about $0.10 in quantity but are a PITA to make yourself (crimp pins, male connector, etc.).  That would make it easy to attach any LIPO cell securely.

It's been relatively painless, though, and is a far better deal than the $500 dev board from Freescale.  Looking forward to the production versions and may well try integrating them into some projects int the future since I couldn't have them assembled and tested for the same price myself in small quantities (~50 boards).  Having the source files is a nice insurance policy if the ever stop being manufactured.

33 Reply by tz

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Re: Feedback on the beta boards

ktownsend wrote:

... It could be helpful to toss in a cable for the LIPO connector since they can be manufactured for about $0.10 in quantity but are a PITA to make yourself (crimp pins, male connector, etc.).  That would make it easy to attach any LIPO cell securely..

sparkfun.com has some chumby spare parts and I think the battery compartment and door would have the right connector.  I've ordered a few things.

Agreed that Wifi (and maybe bluetooth, with antenna connectors) would be better on-board.  Ethernet is usable but in most contexts wireless is going to be better.  The problem is Wifi needs more configuration.  Even if you initially used AdHoc you would need an IP or run a DHCP server, or Avahi, all are on the heavy side.

  • Registered: 2010-09-16
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Re: Feedback on the beta boards

ladyada wrote:
ChrisP wrote:

My first suggestion is to add a 5V signal to the 44 pin "LCD" connector so that you can provide power to the hackerboard from an add on board without using the barrel connector (JP300).  Another suggestion is to make the expansion pins much more fault tolerant.  The I/O are not even 5 volt tolerant but I am thinking that these pins should have some over voltage and ESD protection.  This board is intended to be used by hackers to build all kinds of prototype circuits and they will most certainly connect things to the wrong pins, plug stuff in backwards and at the wrong voltage.  I know the extra protection circuitry will add cost but I think it might be worth it on a hacker board.  I would also like to see board outline dimensions for the drill holes as well as dimension to the expansion connectors to help with making add on boards.  I am creating a base library for the dimensions by using the gerber files but it makes it more difficult.  Also the board outline in the gerber files seems to be for the Chumby one board (Falconwing MP1?), the OEM1b does not have the cutouts on the sides.  I have done nothing but power up my hacker board so I may have more suggestions once I get into it more.

if you're an eagle use, i've made a board that has matching holes/pads for the breakouts. the outline isnt the same but its kinda close. i'm hesitant to post it since its completley untested but proto PCBs will be in next week so you dont have to wait long

I am an Eagle user and I have gotten pretty far in creating my library.  I have a custom add-on board and I think my own library will help but I will definitely checkout your library once you get it posted.  The only problem is that you are probably using an Eagle version greater than 5.0 and my paid license is only good up to version 4.12.  I cannot open libraries created in version 5 and greater.

  • Registered: 2010-09-04
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Re: Feedback on the beta boards

ktownsend wrote:

I'd be glad to pay a bit more money to have something with Wifi on board rather than having to use a USB stick -- it's tough to fit in an enclosure! :-) -- or maybe just Ethernet.  Either is great, but I suspect Wifi is going to be more flexible and represents more of a challenge for other people to implement themselves getting the 2.4GHz right.

theres a USB port on the 0.1" breakout. its much cheaper & easier to make a breakout PCB with a USB connector that allows the stick to stay in the enclosure, than to put ethernet/wifi on there.

36 Reply by tz

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Re: Feedback on the beta boards

ladyada wrote:

theres a USB port on the 0.1" breakout. its much cheaper & easier to make a breakout PCB with a USB connector that allows the stick to stay in the enclosure, than to put ethernet/wifi on there.

I don't have the schamatic at the moment, but I assume it is the 40 pin, is it shared with another connector and/or is it powered from the battery?

37 Reply by tz (edited by tz 2010-09-22 06:09:07)

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Re: Feedback on the beta boards

One of the other applications I was thinking of was an iPod/iPad/iPhone helper - a small cheap box to replace iTunes - to do things like move files (think Pages/Numbers) across, delete or move old files, pics, videos, music in and out of playlists, etc.  It could even be done via a web page being browsed by the iOS device.  I could just point at PDFs on the net and have them added to my books, or do the same with mp3s from the net or a usb key or a server.

Now I see there already is an iPod library and such that allows for reading iPod metadata in XML.  I will have to see if I can extend to GTKpod and if it does books.

I also noticed you are using the aw-gh321 for wifi on the silvermoon so I assume there is a driver.  It would be nice to have that included or as a an optional module.

38 Reply by tz (edited by tz 2010-10-03 17:52:04)

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Re: Feedback on the beta boards

Fedora 12 rootfs will unpack and I can chroot and run yum (if I do "cp -a /dev/* rootfs-f12/dev/" first - and mounting proc in the chroot helps).  yum update works, now to try installing bluez-utils...  Lots of packages.

http://ftp.linux.org.uk/pub/linux/arm/f … 12.tar.bz2

Note - you are likely to need a swap file, and it will take a long time.  It wants to do a full Gnome setup, so brings in fonts, icons, etc.

Avahi was brought along in - doing "dbus-daemon --system; avahi-daemon &" brings it up so I can ping it as chumby.local.

I'll have to see if I can get an Xvnc/xterm, remote X or vnc to the chumby up.  This is all still chroot - I will have to try a merge later.

update - Xvnc works minimally (need window manager, etc).  xterm to another linux box does.  Needed to mount the pts into the chroot ("mount -t devpts devpts /dev/pts" and "mount sys" and the above "mount proc") for xterm.

The packages come from http://ftp.linux.org.uk/pub/linux/arm/f … ng/arm/os/  in the packages directory (it is a big list, but if you want to see what is available).  I;m going to try to add matchboxwm

39 Reply by tz

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Re: Feedback on the beta boards

A bigger ram chip could help.  I just realized the 512Mb is megaBIT.  The problem is if you develop, you either need swap files or bigger ram, and having a bigger cache/buffer space would also help.  I don't know how much more it would cost, but I think this would make a big difference.

40 Reply by tz (edited by tz 2010-10-03 20:50:03)

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Re: Feedback on the beta boards

Still a gap in bluetooth - all the modules are in the kernel and loaded, the usb device seems recognized, but it doesn't bridge to the bluez stack.  Perhaps a udev thing?

update - no, just bluetoothd needed to be started.  I haven't rebooted nor figured quite how to startup the other daemons for Fedora yet (dbus, avahi, bluetooth).

Avahi is interesting since I can put the wifi module into ad-hoc and still find it by just joining the network - the mDNS/Bonjour/etc. will assign an IP and the hostname will be visible as something like chumby.local.  So I could configure it "out of the box" without a serial console or display.

For those interested, a USB camera will display over VNC using xawtv, but only about 1 frame every 5 seconds.  Not useful for video, but for some security app it might be good.

  • Registered: 2010-09-30
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Re: Feedback on the beta boards

Sort of off topic, but I was curious. Bunnie, is there any chance of the EBI being on the later board? (IE, could I add my own parallel memories) If the address and data busses could be made available (without ruining the board's signal integrity) that would be awesome. Also, integrating USB<->Serial on the board would be fantastic, since it would not at much (if any, used creatively) to the size of the board, and maybe another dollar or two, which I would prefer to the twelve dollar FT232 breakout I needed to get my version one up and running. A dedicated graphics port would be nice, too. And, make the LiPo connector the one that SFE uses for its lipos (the 2-pin jst), as those are very easily accessible and dont require modifying the LiPo itself.  Other than those few nitpicks, I REALLY like this board so far, and at half the price of the Beagleboard, it was a no brainer for me. (Side note, holes for stand-offs would be nice)

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Re: Feedback on the beta boards

The one thing I noticed and I'm litle scared of it is that there are no ESD components for expansion connectors. Usually all hobby places or software development "offices" don't have ESD protected area. Also I recommended that FT232R USB to serial TTL converter on board. That helps usage of the board.

It also be nice if all unused pins are connected to expansion connector.
like GPMI_Rdy1-3 that can be used as GPIO.

There is joystick on board and it's nice. It would be better if there is connector of external joystic using same pins or connector for UI card.

Other "nice to have" is mounting holes in PCB and RCA female connector for video signal or place for that.

43 Reply by tz

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Re: Feedback on the beta boards

Most components themselves are ESD hardened these days, so the lack of external protection is less of a concern.  I wouldn't try doing a carpet-spark test, and I would assume that a real product would be in a case.  I haven't had an Arduino or even Atmel processor go bad and it has no external protection and I've used them everywhere.

As far as the LiPo, either there should be a case/cable/connector available for some inexpensive and common battery, a specified thermistor with adapter, or the more common 2 pin JST.

I would not want USB to serial on board - I'm using bluetooth and it would ruin it.  Maybe we should see if we can adapt the new Arduino's serial to USB micro to make it less expensive.

The joyswitch isn't conveniently located so maybe an external connector (like the rotary).

I agree that some mounting holes would help. 

Also the bottom USB connnectors require having both sides exposed, a front/back - perhaps they can be 4 pin connectors or go vertical - this would be hard to put into a small box and have everything accessible.

I'm still working with Fedora - Quake3 is about 1/10 fps and the sound track stutters, but it ran.

I should see if I can get one of the X servers for the processor going...

44 Reply by tz (edited by tz 2010-10-06 11:19:14)

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Re: Feedback on the beta boards

Xorg (frame buffer version) lives on the NTSC output!  I did the flashviewer to change output first, and needed to kill udev and restart it in the chroot along with hald, but I have mouse, keyboard, 720x480 screen.  Maybe I'll try firefox, or Quake 3 again...  I still haven't merged fedora into the chumby root.

(Note: I also have the Xvnc running as a second X display at better resolution while the main one is running, but I hope to have a real remote desktop soon).

/etc/X11/xorg.conf

Section "ServerLayout"
        Identifier     "single head configuration"
        Screen      0  "Screen0" 0 0
        InputDevice    "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
# keyboard added by system-config-display
        Identifier  "Keyboard0"
        Driver      "kbd"
        Option      "XkbModel" "pc105+inet"
        Option      "XkbLayout" "us"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
        Identifier  "Generic Mouse"
        Driver      "mouse"
        Option  "CorePointer"
        Option  "Device" "/dev/input/mice"
        Option  "Protocol" "ImPS/2"
        Option  "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
EndSection

Section "Monitor"
        Identifier   "Monitor0"
        ModelName    "Monitor 640x480"
        HorizSync    31.4 - 31.6
        VertRefresh  50.0 - 61.0
        Option      "dpms"
EndSection

Section "Device"
        Identifier  "Videocard0"
        Driver      "fbdev"
EndSection

Section "Screen"
        Identifier "Screen0"
        Device     "Videocard0"
        Monitor    "Monitor0"
        DefaultDepth     16
        SubSection "Display"
                Viewport   0 0
                Depth     16
                Modes    "720x480"
        EndSubSection
EndSection

45 Reply by tz

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Re: Feedback on the beta boards

To see my rather messy setup and a gigaware pico projector below a VNC of the X desktop:

http://picasaweb.google.com/tz2026/Chum … directlink

46 Reply by tz (edited by tz 2010-10-07 18:18:28)

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Re: Feedback on the beta boards

I need to do some diffs and cleanup but have a pivot script, that is after installing the above rootfs and yum installing a lot of packages:

boot normal chumby, cd to /mnt/storage, chroot to rootfs-f12, and run startup.sh and you get everything going. 

Some editing for iwconfig to pick your AP if you are using wireless instead of ethernet, but my goal is to create an AdHoc "chumby" wireless, have avahi assign an IP, with mDNS so you can just connect to the Adhoc, and run a VNC client using "chumby.local" as the host name from an iPhone or Android.  I have it working with a normal AP VNCed to my iPhone already.

I will just need some place to put the resulting scripts and stuff if anyone wants an image since it isn't small.  Or I might be able to just do a script that would download the rootfs, install the packages, and add my config changes.

Right now one problem is I've done too much config outside the chroot - iwconfig and such are in the chumby fs, but aren't visible inside the chroot so I need to install those packages.

Update - not all bluetooth chipsets work.  Cambridge Silicon Radio (I have 3 models) do.  Another with USB vendor ID 0c10 works.  A "rocketfish mini" with a broadcom chipset doesn't (enumerates and internal hub and 2 devices - probably needs a kernel and/or driver update).  There also seems to be something about enumerating hubs - the keyboard has a hub within, but depending on the order sometimes bluetooth won't be recognized.

  • Registered: 2008-06-27
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Re: Feedback on the beta boards

That's really cool!

There should be a VGA-enabled kernel that'll output 640x480 video coming out soon for use with Lady Ada's VGA board.  Works a treat with a VGA pico projector.  Some hacks to disable the PXP could free up some memory bandwidth and increase performance a bit.  Quake might run 5-10% faster:

# Disable the PXP, and the IRQ that will restart it
regutil -w HW_PXP_CTRL_CLR=3

# Point /dev/fb0 directly at the LCD, rather than at the PXP
regutil -w HW_LCDIF_NEXT_BUF=$(regutil -r HW_PXP_S0BUF | 
cut -d' ' -f4)
  • Registered: 2010-10-08
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Re: Feedback on the beta boards

Hello today I have placed order for chumby hack board
sorry I want to know this for commuticate PC to CHB is need usb to 3.3 v tx rx converter
or CHB is directly connect PC's USB port whit this cable
http://www.adafruit.com/index.php?main_ … ucts_id=70
(if yes I can make this)
and this cable is include FTDI chip !!!
regards

49 Reply by tz

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Re: Feedback on the beta boards

ekrem wrote:

Hello today I have placed order for chumby hack board
sorry I want to know this for commuticate PC to CHB is need usb to 3.3 v tx rx converter
or CHB is directly connect PC's USB port whit this cable
http://www.adafruit.com/index.php?main_ … ucts_id=70
(if yes I can make this)
and this cable is include FTDI chip !!!
regards

You need that cable in the link, and to move some of the pins around http://wiki.ladyada.net/chumbyhackerboard/serial - Note the orange and yellow pins can stay and the black just has to be moved one spot toward the center.

Any 3.3v(!) arduino or ttl cable will work but you have to get the pins in the right place.

50 Reply by tz

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Re: Feedback on the beta boards

ChumbyLurker wrote:

That's really cool!

There should be a VGA-enabled kernel that'll output 640x480 video coming out soon for use with Lady Ada's VGA board.  Works a treat with a VGA pico projector.  Some hacks to disable the PXP could free up some memory bandwidth and increase performance a bit.  Quake might run 5-10% faster:

I'd prefer 800x600 if possible - or even 1024x768/600/576 - most monitors can sync to a fairly wide range, so even getting 720x480 out the VGA side should result in a good display - it does on my HD TV.