1 (edited by joltdude 2008-04-05 09:41:23)

Topic: The Standards betting on Chumby's existance / Life expectancy

http://www.thestandard.com/predictions/ … bruary-1-2

Also see this
http://www.thestandard.com/news/2008/03 … larm-clock

Re: The Standards betting on Chumby's existance / Life expectancy

Thanks for the interesting post.  I noticed that all the predictions were web sites or software required for the particular sites mentioned so the Chumby has no place in this series of predictions.  The only actual electronic device out of all the predictions was the Chumby.  There are tons of electronic devices on the market today, and all the electronic companies have had to start at the beginning with their product, and it seems strange to me that The Standard.com only singled out one electronic device with all the other electronic devices on the market today, The Chumby.  The Standard.com is entitled to their opinion and I am entitled to mine.  Personally, I think TheStandard.com is full of bull.

I PREDICT THAT THESTANDARD.COM WEBSITE WILL BE SHORT LIVED because it has so ridiculous, haphazard predictions that most people will see through.  So Be It.


Bob
Columbus, Ohio

Re: The Standards betting on Chumby's existance / Life expectancy

I hope they are wrong, but in my opinion, they are not far off as far as Chumby's relation to the Captivate displays in my office building's elevators.  I watch them because I am stuck in the elevator.  If they were in the hallway, I would just keep walking.  Sure, unlike Captivate, I can program which streams the Chumby plays, but it still is a product that most people just won't get.

Honestly, I think they are losing a huge market by marketing a product that is so open-ended.  If I was in charge of marketing, we would be marketing it as the world's best alarm clock...and focusing on everything around that.  The clock would rule..and it's clock functionality would be best of breed.  Forum members complaining about screen brightness at night, lack of ramping up audio for alarms, alarm reliability, alarm sounds, et al. indicates to me that the focus on the alarm clock aspects of the Chumby have just not been a priority.  Other channels?  I would market those as items that are ancillary to the clock.  "Wake to weather and news!  Check weather quickly before you walk out the door!"

I would also make sure that widget navigation was extremely straightforward and focused mostly on the clock being displayed, but allow you to quickly get to another widget...especially weather.  Perhaps a handful of hard buttons...one with perhaps a silkscreened sun/cloud icon...another with a newspaper...and one with a clock....or reserve some screen real estate for single-touch access to core widgets.

What we have now is far more flexible...and far geekier...and far less consumer-oriented...and most folks just are not going to get it.  If it was marketed as an alarm clock, many non-geek consumers would get it instantly...and the geeks here would figure out how to get it to do far more.  Chumby could dominate a niche...or they can continue to try and market the device's flexibility and mostly fall on deaf ears.  BTW, alarm clocks may be a niche...but they are a niche that everyone has at least one of...and mostly hates...and would probably not mind replacing if you could convince them that yours would make their life better.

I have other ideas if you folks want to fly me in.  Just make sure that you buy an extra seat for my soapbox.  wink

cheers,
Steve

Re: The Standards betting on Chumby's existance / Life expectancy

Haha! Brilliant.

Nice post Steve.

Re: The Standards betting on Chumby's existance / Life expectancy

Well, the alarm clock is just one function of the device. I personally feel that they are overemphasizing (in marketing) the alarm clock functionality of the device. Basically, if you look at the device (insofar as to the product design itself) and the software UI, it is essentially supposed to be a customizable "internet window." Also, if you read a lot of the reviews of the device by non-tech oriented publications, you will find that they focus on the device almost completely as an alarm clock and consider everything else it does to be somewhat secondary. Which is, to a degree, what I believe the guys at Chumby Industries were trying to achieve. It seems to me that they thought the idea of an information appliance would scare off a lot of people, and so instead focused the marketing on, while not specifically calling it an alarm clock +, a slight emphasis of that feature, so that people get the impression that the Chumby is an alarm clock +.

Your idea about adding hardware buttons to the device is, at least seemingly, a good idea. However, when you consider that they are trying to make the device as non-threatening as possible for the non-technically inclined, then you can see the logic behind not having more hardware buttons. And, one must admit, that insofar as the hardware design goes, they have succeeded in making perhaps the least threatening looking/feeling piece of technology ever (I don't think anyone can come up with something less threatening than a leather covered bean bag with a screen).

One of the things they talk about when people start suggesting using the accelerometor for widget switching or adding button or extra functions to the one non-power switch on the device is the concern about having too much hidden functionality. According to (I think) Duane, some people in the company thought the one built in button itself was too hidden. And, using the device, especially after having gone through the simple set-up procedure, I am hard pressed to call it any part of using the Chumby threatening or unintuitive, save for perhaps the my streams music functionality, but even then only for excessively long station URLs.

I do agree with you overall assessment however insofar as what markets are likely to be interested in the device, although I honestly do believe that to be more a marketing problem than anything else.

Re: The Standards betting on Chumby's existance / Life expectancy

I'm reminded of the launch of TiVo in the UK. Sky were responsible for the marketing and their USP (unique selling point) was "pause live TV". And anyone who owns a TiVo knows it can do that, but that's NOT the main USP of TiVo. TiVo DIED in the UK ('sob') - a fantastic device, that would be bought by EVERYONE if they understood the benefits (-'never miss your fave TV shows'-) but the marketeers did not understand it. So, (and the point of my rant), Chumby marketeers - find a great USP and focus on it. Forget about all of the other stuff that Chumby does - people will discover that AFTER they've bought it - focus on that killer app, and SELL those benefits. Please, whatever you do, do NOT focus on it's versatility - we coders, hackers and early adopters see that, but Joe Public will not. Make it a YouTube viewer, make it a Flickr photo frame, make it an Internet radio, make it the world's best alarm clock - just pick one, and market the hell out of it.

Re: The Standards betting on Chumby's existance / Life expectancy

Sure, but look at how they market the iPhone or the iPod...

They are a phone and a music player respectively, but both capable of so much more. Getting this across to the public is a real skill and I wouldn't know where to start.

That's why I'm a programmer and not a marketing expert!

Re: The Standards betting on Chumby's existance / Life expectancy

I would think a dedicated internet radio might be the easiest sell there, considering the cost of other such devices (as apparent from a quick amazon search for the term "internet radio"). Of course, that then brings up the issue that the Chumby currently does not support DRM or proprietary file formats. But, then again, Chumby Industries recently managed to secure, I believe, about $15 million, so securing the proper licensing for those probably wouldn't be an issue insofar as the actual cost for Chumby Industries.

The biggest issue there would be whether Chumby Industries *should* license proprietary codecs, because above all else (at least apparently to me), the device is supposed to be open hackable by anyone. The only reason they decided to license the embedded flash player from adobe was because they wanted widget creation to be easy, and the number of people who use Flash to begin with would provide a very large number of potential developers to create widgets.

Truth be told, I am personally of the opinion that perhaps licensing proprietary stuff for the Chumby is a good idea (insofar as actual device usage goes), as long as the other proprietary stuff is kept properly seperated from the non-proprietary stuff. I would love to use Skype with my Chumby (yeah, yeah, everyone has heard it before, but Skype support would be big for the Chumby). I would love to have access to net radio stations that someone decided should be made available only as some damned DRM'd WMA. Of course, that last one could be had by striking deals with companies and negotiating exclusive access to versions of those stations which the Chumby already supports, but that does happen to limit the number of stations one can play on the device.

Gingerbeardman, the reason that the iPhone and iPod Touch are marketed the way they are is because it would be a bad idea to put too much emphasis on the other features. People generally zero in on one feature and one function for a device. If it was marketed as a swiss army knife, people wouldn't buy it because they would start to think of everything else they have that performs (or that they believe) the same function or a similar function itself, or reasons why those functions are unnecessary for them. And they do it for EVERY SINGLE THING that the device is advertised as being capable of.

Nevermind that the devices (IMHO) are more the successor to the Newton than an outgrowth of the iPod. By focusing in on one function (phone/music player) and one feature (touch screen) to emphasize in the majority of their advertisements they avoid that. You have less people thinking "I already have a phone, why do I need one that does all that other stuff that I can do seperately anyway" and more "Oh, that is cool, I want one." They also are able to have the devices benefit from the strength of the iPod brand itself.

Sometimes, unique for the sake of unique is a good idea, even if the reasoning makes little sense from a practical standpoint. Take, for example, the iPod touch. That is leveraged more heavily as a music player, and as more the continuation of the iPod line than the iPhone. Almost everyone hates the stainless steel backplate that every iPod (save the shuffle) has. It scratches easily (and very visibly) and attracts smudge marks. So, why do you think that piece of design has survived through to the iPod touch? It isn't a secret that everyone hates it, and wouldn't be costly to change.

The reason the backing is still there in the iPod touch is that it is a design feature the people strongly associate with the iPod brand. The association is negative, but not negative enough that people seriously consider it an issue when deciding whether they want an iPod or not. It is something that if someone sees on a handheld device of a certain size, will immediately give them the impression that said device is an Apple iPod.

That is also the same reason that Chumby Industries ships the Chumby in a burlap bag, That is the reason that the device is squishy (it could be non-threatening and not squeezable), and it is also the reason why the device is marketed as being so completely open. Chumby Industries is building the Chumby brand. They are building the brand itself on the premise that the device is open. Insofar as immediate income is concerned, it might be a great idea to start shoving in more proprietary stuff. However, this could very well serve to harm the brand that they are in the process of building.

So, it comes down to what is more important for Chumby Industries. If it is immediate profit, then stuffing the device full of proprietary stuff would be a great move. However, if it is building the Chumby brand for increased profit in the future, then it is probably a good idea to compromise device functionality in regards to proprietary stuff now so that the open brand can be built up properly.

Re: The Standards betting on Chumby's existance / Life expectancy

This is a great discussion, guys.  And interesting to us because we've made, and still make, all of these same points to ourselves.  How *do* you best market this thing we call "chumby"?  After all, it *isn't* a clock radio or an Internet radio or a digital photo frame or anything else: it's a *chumby*!  To bow towards the larger market and not just to those early-adopters visionary enough to "get it," we have of course had to emphasize some specific features, like it being "a better wake-up," and we're going to continue to make the case for the chumby's real usefulness in so many parts of your life (e.g., for me, right now, it's the only way I'd ever derive value from a podcast).  Not to diminish the totality of things the chumby can do or its flexibility, but you'll see and hear real demonstrations of real people finding clear and unique value with their chumbys -- plural form intended :^).  Specifically to get beyond the thrust of a lot of the press we've been receiving: "here's another fun little techy gadget!"  Yes, I'm the CEO, but the chumby makes my life better every single day, amuses me, delights me, allows me to know something I didn't know before, and enhances my "social capital" with anyone who sees one in my house, which is of course the best marketing tool of all :^).  And from the blog posts, Forum posts and our surveying, people who get a chumby almost universally seem to think it's better (and getting still better all the time) than they expected.  So we'll keep focusing on delighting our early-adopters, while still trying to do a better job of making the "why a chumby?" case to a broader market.

But don't get overly distracted by our hardware story -- that's only part of what Chumby Industries, the company that we all want to see prosper, does.  We see the bulk of the value residing in the Chumby Network.  We opened our hardware spec and published it for a reason.  We want to see the Chumby Network on every sufficiently-capable Internet-connected screen in the world, not just our own.  So, to try to be clearer, the *real* value in Chumby, and in *the* chumby, is when there are lots of people, including many that you know and love, also on the Chumby Network.  Then your chumby device is better and so is the fast-growing world of digital photo frames, LCD TVs, and every other imaginable connected screen that carries the Chumby Network.  Our marketing focus is there.

Re: The Standards betting on Chumby's existance / Life expectancy

Steve,

I do like the fact that you are focusing on the Network. It's clear from your 'zero-profit-hardware' that the Network is your revenue. But to make this mass-market, and thus generate your revenue from the Network, you still need a clear marketing 'angle' (euchhh! - hate that term). Here's a phrase you are welcome to - gratis and free forever - "Your Internet Life.." - that's what Chumby feels like to me. And it's sufficiently vague to allow any number of 'focused' campaigns in specialist press, but still keep the consistent 'hook' that people will hear from place to place...

"your Internet life.." - never be away from Facebook
"your Internet life.." - always know your travel plans
"your Internet life.." - be closer to the auction
"your Internet life.." - News when you need it

Hey, I'm not paid to market Chumby, but I want it to work, and I want it to succeed - so use the idea or dump it (or offer me a job !)

WILLING you to win.

Good luck

Pat

Re: The Standards betting on Chumby's existance / Life expectancy

Steve Tomlin wrote:

... and enhances my "social capital" with anyone who sees one in my house...

I keep my Chumby on my nightstand...and just between us Steves, there is far less occasion to entertain new friends in that area since the wedding.  wink




Of course, if you guys add a network proxy ability, I would be able to show off another one at work.  smile

Re: The Standards betting on Chumby's existance / Life expectancy

Steve,

I purchased the Chumby as a fun information dissemination gadget. Since I keep it in my bedroom, it also doubles as alarm clock and radio.

The alarm clock functionality is nice, but the radio implemention leaves - with all due respect - a lot of work to be done. Also, all (like in 100%) of my local radio station are available in WMA only, and therefore do not work on the Chumby. (WMA Not open source? I could not care less. Flash Lite is not exactly open source either...)

I do run a SqueezeServer in my home, but in order to use this in a sensible way with the chumby, I would need to keep the squeezebox duet controller (or a laptop) next to the chumby. Does not make sense. (You could port SqueezeSlave to the chumby, it's fully open source. Then you would only need a remote control gadget. Or: strike an agreement with SlimDevices/Logitech to run SqueezePlay on the Chumby. It's open source too)

It's very diappointg to see there are no Chumby supplied widgets that truly enable the device. All of the RSS, Weather, Stock gadgets are by third parties and mostly hardwired. To be useful, there should be very "generic" widgets that are highly configurable. And with "configurable" I mean not only the obvious (like: feeds, tickers etc) but also smart options to extract and reformat information from pages. (And yes, adding tts would be nice, too)

The control panel and main loop also needs a lot of rework, just pre-programmed loops are amusing as a desk gadget, but not enough if I want information "right now".

Why is there no browser component? Webkit *will* work fine on such a small device.

To sum it up: I like the open approach, the packaging and your frienbdly user support. But the software (widgets) supplied now qualify the Chumby as a geek gadget with potential, but far from a customer ready device.

So, the points are valid. My bet is, Chumby will survive longer than Feb 09, but I would rate it as a 60% yes.
Work to do.

P.S.: and most important: stop messing around with my channels.
I DO NOT WANT ADDS AND OTHER CRAP AUTO-INSERTED INTO MY CHANNELS!!! !!!
If you plan "enhance" channels with adds, tell us, and count me out as Chumby user.

P.P.S.: You need to clarify your privacy policy. Right now it's not really clear, what kind of (widget related) information goes to Chumby.com, and what goes to third parties.

Re: The Standards betting on Chumby's existance / Life expectancy

Steve Tomlin wrote:

But don't get overly distracted by our hardware story -- that's only part of what Chumby Industries, the company that we all want to see prosper, does.  We see the bulk of the value residing in the Chumby Network.  We opened our hardware spec and published it for a reason.  We want to see the Chumby Network on every sufficiently-capable Internet-connected screen in the world, not just our own.  So, to try to be clearer, the *real* value in Chumby, and in *the* chumby, is when there are lots of people, including many that you know and love, also on the Chumby Network.  Then your chumby device is better and so is the fast-growing world of digital photo frames, LCD TVs, and every other imaginable connected screen that carries the Chumby Network.  Our marketing focus is there.

I'm happy to hear that. One of the widgets I looked at was "FrameChannel." I went to their web site and realized that the Chumby's competition (as it appeared to me then) was digital picture frames. And with the latter now appearing in a wide variety of sizes, I thought the Chumby would have an increasingly hard time competing. After all, FrameChannel (which looks like a creation of of digital frame manufacturers or their trade association) obviously wants to expand the info that can be displayed on a picture frame. By including news, weather, sports scores, etc., they make frames look more and more like Chumby's.

Based on your post, above, though, I'm now guessing that instead of "photo frames" being competition for "Chumby's," it'll be "FrameChannel" as competition for "Chumby Network."

Unless, of course, those two organizations are one and the same, or cooperating.

Re: The Standards betting on Chumby's existance / Life expectancy

Nice blog post.

Re: The Standards betting on Chumby's existance / Life expectancy

We really don't see digital photo frames as competition for Chumby, but rather as delivery platforms for the Chumby Network -- simply yet another screen in the "Blade Runner world" of connected screens everywhere that we live in.  You will see DPFs delivering the Chumby Network -- not the super-cheap ones, but the higher-end ones that have connectivity and some decent electronics in them.  We also don't see Frame Media as competition.  Yes, they deliver information to connected screens, but currently it's an extremely limited content service with no open publishing model, no easy content sharing, no rich media like audio, animation or video, no "future-proofness" from over-the-air functional updates, ...  It's probably the best option currently possible for really low-end digital photo frames, but it doesn't seem like it's trying to be what Chumby is trying to be, i.e., the full "10 pounds of internet" squeezed into these "5 pound packages" of net-connected screens.  Frame Media seems more like "1 pound of the internet" presented in "1 pound packages."  That said, we're delighted that they produced a Chumby Frame Channel widget -- for someone who wants what they provide, why not make it available on the chumby?  Let 100 flowers bloom.

Re: The Standards betting on Chumby's existance / Life expectancy

I always find it funny when someone bets for or against a product because, unless you are employed by the company behind the product, or own it, what does it matter?
What it comes down to is the inherent cynicism that has bloated a lot of the media, especially when it comes to how it views new products.
Sure, give Chumby acclaim, or dismiss it, but it seems a bit silly to 'bet against it' because what does it matter?
If you're right, big deal, another young company had a setback (I don't foresee a Gizmondo debacle here, do you?) and if you're wrong, you're another naysayer that was incorrect.
Yawn.
For me, I guess it makes me appreciate the sites that take the time to get to know a product and give it a fair shake.

..c...

Re: The Standards betting on Chumby's existance / Life expectancy

Part of the inherent problem here, I think, is the misconception in articles like the one posted is that the Chumby is an "alarm clock".  While it is, that's kind of like marketing a car by only focusing on the fact that it has a radio. While the Chumby is an alarm clock, Joe Consumer isn't going to pay $180 for one. Especially not one that contains advertising, even in small amounts.

Honestly, I don't know what the answer is for Chumby, because I think that pushing ads on the device is a bad business model. People aren't going to go to the trouble to configure their own content and show the device off to their friends and family, only to have to embarassingly explain why it contains ads. By the same token, folks aren't likely to pay a subscription fee to eliminate the ads for a device they don't really "need".  To be perfectly blunt, had I known that the device would arbitrarily push ads and/or content that I had no control over, I would have never purchased it in the first place. I managed to get all the way through the website and through the order process without realizing this was a possibility. Quite frankly, the fact that unrequested content can appear on the device isn't extremely clear on the website. It is only through a little digging that you'll notice that information. Again, I don't think all of this really weighs in the Chumby's favor, and this first and foremost is what needs to be thought through.

18 (edited by joltdude 2008-04-12 20:12:51)

Re: The Standards betting on Chumby's existance / Life expectancy

alexh wrote:

Steve,

I purchased the Chumby as a fun information dissemination gadget. Since I keep it in my bedroom, it also doubles as alarm clock and radio.

The alarm clock functionality is nice, but the radio implemention leaves - with all due respect - a lot of work to be done. Also, all (like in 100%) of my local radio station are available in WMA only, and therefore do not work on the Chumby. (WMA Not open source? I could not care less. Flash Lite is not exactly open source either...)

Yes but wheres the money going to come for the licence to Microsoft huh?

I do run a SqueezeServer in my home, but in order to use this in a sensible way with the chumby, I would need to keep the squeezebox duet controller (or a laptop) next to the chumby. Does not make sense. (You could port SqueezeSlave to the chumby, it's fully open source. Then you would only need a remote control gadget. Or: strike an agreement with SlimDevices/Logitech to run SqueezePlay on the Chumby. It's open source too)

Slimserver basically cripples non Slimserver devices (real ones.. Logitechs trying to close the compatibility with non-real slimservers in version 7.. they are very likely to NOT be interested in playing with competition.. Hell a Roku Soundbridge doesnt work on current Slimservers well/at all... SLims using DRM for some content only a hardware Slim device can recieve)

It's very diappointg to see there are no Chumby supplied widgets that truly enable the device. All of the RSS, Weather, Stock gadgets are by third parties and mostly hardwired. To be useful, there should be very "generic" widgets that are highly configurable. And with "configurable" I mean not only the obvious (like: feeds, tickers etc) but also smart options to extract and reformat information from pages. (And yes, adding tts would be nice, too)

The control panel and main loop also needs a lot of rework, just pre-programmed loops are amusing as a desk gadget, but not enough if I want information "right now".

Why is there no browser component? Webkit *will* work fine on such a small device.

Because browsers generally are bloated and theres not really much room for a web browser with UI on either the physical screen with a virtual keyboard OR in the flash...
Though Firefox mobile "might" be an option....

To sum it up: I like the open approach, the packaging and your frienbdly user support. But the software (widgets) supplied now qualify the Chumby as a geek gadget with potential, but far from a customer ready device.

So, the points are valid. My bet is, Chumby will survive longer than Feb 09, but I would rate it as a 60% yes.
Work to do.

P.S.: and most important: stop messing around with my channels.
I DO NOT WANT ADDS AND OTHER CRAP AUTO-INSERTED INTO MY CHANNELS!!! !!!
If you plan "enhance" channels with adds, tell us, and count me out as Chumby user.

Well if you dont want ads, you should be prepared to pay for a subscription.. You could always go for Chumby's competitors.. theres the Widgetstation and OObe....
Oh yeah, neither is avalible yet, and only plays propriatary content...
And when i emailed OObe... they said quite bluntly that they are throwing in the towel

As many have said before Chumbys do not have the luxury of scale in production... At some point they might... but there are close to selling at-cost... If you want no ads.. you shouldnt have bought one, it was clearly mentioned in the website that there will be ads at some point, you just cared to ignore it convienently and thought you could whine to opt-out

P.P.S.: You need to clarify your privacy policy. Right now it's not really clear, what kind of (widget related) information goes to Chumby.com, and what goes to third parties.

Re: The Standards betting on Chumby's existance / Life expectancy

It's interesting to know that Chumby outlived The Standard.  Use the links reported in the first article and you'll know what I mean...

(I revisited this forum post because a spammer was here.)