Topic: battery!

I dont get why chumbys dont have a long lasting battery! i know their meant to be home machines but wat if u want to take them on trips?

Re: battery!

Bottom line: Physics.

Re: battery!

ok

Re: battery!

neutral

Re: battery!

Duane wrote:

Bottom line: Physics.

Could you elaborate please?
Is it that hard to have a rechargeable LithIon battery pack that keeps the unit running for, say, 20 minutes?

Re: battery!

Please refer to the "Power" thread, as it has a pretty comprehensive answer to the problem.

Re: battery!

the power forum doesnt explain why CI wont sell an external battery pack.
something to house a 12V rechargeable 'remote control car' type battery, or even something that takes a pile of AA or C type batteries.
the batter holder, (batteries not included) for $14.95 would be a big seller.
without the batteries, you've pretty much relegated your chumby to the shelf.

Re: battery!

Believe me, we discuss this issue internally all the time, and it's not something we're simply ignoring.

As you can see in the "Power" thread, there are a *lot* of issues with power consumption, safety, cost, etc.

Just last week, Nokia recalled 46 million batteries.  This is just the most recent recall of dozens over the last couple of years covering hundreds of millions of defective and dangerous batteries.

It's not just a simple issue of putting out a cheap battery pack.  There's a lot of work to do to get something like this right.

Re: battery!

Can you elaborate?  I'm trying to hack my chumby by using a DC to DC converter to a li-ion.  Is there any good reason I shouldn't attempt this besides it voiding my warranty?

Re: battery!

Wal-Marx wrote:

Can you elaborate?  I'm trying to hack my chumby by using a DC to DC converter to a li-ion.  Is there any good reason I shouldn't attempt this besides it voiding my warranty?

If you know what you're doing, go for it - that's exactly the kind of hacking we're expecting people to do.

As a *company*, however, there are a lot of additional considerations that must be accounted for in order for us to manufacture around an official battery solution.

Re: battery!

So is it OK to put a battery (9volt) in the first 50 chumby's?  back during the testing, someone said not to.  is it ok now?

Re: battery!

Is there any good reason I shouldn't attempt this besides it voiding my warranty?

From the wikipedia page on Lithium:

When placed over a flame, lithium gives off a striking crimson color, but when it burns strongly, the flame becomes a brilliant white. Lithium will ignite and burn when exposed to water and water vapours in oxygen. It is the only metal that reacts with nitrogen at room temperature.

Lithium metal is flammable and potentially explosive when exposed to air and especially water, though it is far less dangerous than other alkali metals in this regard. The lithium-water reaction at normal temperatures is brisk but not violent. Lithium fires are difficult to extinguish, requiring special chemicals designed to smother them.

Combine this with the fact that the cathodes are often made out of graphite/carbon (which also burns well in air...remember chernobyl?) and the fact that over-charging, shorting, or puncturing the battery can lead to thermal run-away conditions that lead to ignition--and the fact that conventional fire abatement methods don't put out lithium fires--and I think you have all the reasons.

In other words, you might void the warranty on your house by burning it down, and we're not responsible for that either. wink

Then again, the lithium ion battery feat is pulled off day after day in billions of laptops, cellphones, and PDAs worldwide. But as noted previously in this forum, millions of batteries get recalled on a routine basis, for a reason.

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Re: battery!

does this apply to polymer lithium ion as well?

Re: battery!

Polymer lithium ion, for what its worth, has a reputation of being marginally more dangerous than regular lithium ion. I don't recall the exact reason but I think it has to do with the fact that the polymer matrix will melt at lower temperatures.

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Re: battery!

I might be missing an important element of what you're try to convey, but what if you put one in a metal tin similar to what an ipod encloses its Li-Ion in?

Re: battery!

I have some rechargable NIMH batteries I will be trying. I am going to use a set of 8, giving 12 volts and I purchased a radio shack casing which directly connects to the 9v connector. I'm going to time how long chumby will stay up, it should be cool. I just want to find out if chumby charges them if it is plugged in as well and if not how I could do that.
This should probably be in the power board. heh

Re: battery!

Yes - why not just use older tech like HiMH in the Chumby?

Since it is a safer tech, and weight isn't that big of an issue with the Chumby, NiMH would work just fine.  None of those LiIon worries either.

Chumby really needs a battery solutions.  Adding one to mine has made all the difference in actually using it instead of it sitting in a corner neglected after the newness of it wore off.

Re: battery!

NiMH has some voltage depression issues and doesn't have as good an energy density. It also doesn't handle the case of a deep discharge too well, which is actually possible given the current power architecture of the chumby.

Then again, these issues are lesser evils in my mind, especially since the chumby is neither space-limited nor weight-limited limited in its use case. I guess the big risk is just people returning the chumby because the batteries pooped out due to lifetime shortening effects inherent in these chemistries (or perhaps the lifetime is just shorter than expectation--after all, what's the expected battery lifetime for a device that's advertised as "always on"? even a flashlight advertised as "always on" would have unhappy customers based on too short a battery life), which runs counter to providing the most cost-effective platform to customers e.g., building in the cost of battery related returns into the pricing model would drive up the retail price significantly.

I think your approach of purchasing a battery accessory and plugging it into the chumby might actually be the ideal compromise here. Those who don't need a battery in their use case don't pay for it, and those who do need it can buy one, and the third party vendor (in this case Energizer) has to deal with any battery returns based upon dissatisfaction with the battery's performance.

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Re: battery!

You can use the processor to deal with the charge discharge to make sure the battery is dealt with properly.  My Thinkpad (T61 & older T42p) does that today with LiIon.

As for buying an add-on.  I'm all for that also, however the only add-on out there right now that is easy to work with, just isn't a nice fit.  It doesn't fit inside the Chumby, and it's connector is loose which causes the plug to come out (just enough) all the time.

One other note, I don't think this thing needs to be always-on when it comes to the brightness.  I think when it's running on batteries it should turn it's dimlevel down to a user-defined setting (low), then when it feels movement or a touch on the screen, the dimlevel could come back to life.  Same thing a cell phone does to make sure that it's always-on model lasts a full day.

Re: battery!

I'd settle for a battery back-up on the clock.

Re: battery!

englere wrote:

I'd settle for a battery back-up on the clock.

I think you can get that via the 9-volt you can put inside the Chumby??

Todd

Re: battery!

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Cindy