• Registered: 2007-11-09
  • Posts: 340

Topic: 2.6.51 Observations

Overall:  Looking even better, and there is not a lot of critical issues or requests so far; just fine-tuning what is already there.

Here are the issues I had:

General Control Panel:

(1) Backing out the Music panel into the Control panel froze the display.  The watchdog timer kicked in and reset the interface.  I have not been able to reproduce this problem

Music:

(1) I like the look of the iPod panel -- thanks for bringing it back and making it look better!

(2) if the iPod is already plugged into the chumby when it reboots, then the iPod will not be seen.  The iPod has to be
     unplugged and plugged back in -- not great when there is a power failure.  I think this is also a problem in earlier versions.

(3) If there is one playlist in the iPod panel. please select it automatically.  I had difficult trying to get the iPod Shuffle to play (once I got it recognized, that is).  It wasn't clear I had to select the single item on the list before I hit play.

     The odd thing was that it let me hit play without the playlist being selected: the button changed its appearance to the 'pause' symbol, making ti seem like it was playing, but no sound came out.  This shouldn't really happen!

(4) Question:  shouldn't all screens with lists of items have something preselected by default -- preferably the one you selected when last in this screen?  Wouldn't it be friendlier to keep this state around?

(5) I like the 'my streams.'  Yahoo!

  I'd like to repeat my earlier request that it would be good to have a way to manage "My Streams" list from the Chumby site, so I can cut and paste from a separate webpage into the Chumby page.  This would be easier than writing down the urls and manually entering them into the Chumby.

Alarm:

(1) I still recommend being able to say "No sound" for an alarm rather than specify a duration of 0.  It makes more sense for the user.  I use this feature to turn night-mode on

Other:

(1) I look forward using the Easter eggs in my development.  Thank you for listening to our requests!

(2) Speaking of requests, is it possible for us developers to add new buttons for the Settings panel?  For my hacking project, I need to manage a USB device and I cannot think of a better way than from the control panel.  Using the device will be done with scripts and a widget or two.

I will let you know how alarm stuff works in the next few days!

  • Registered: 2007-11-09
  • Posts: 340

Re: 2.6.51 Observations

About the alarm:

[1] The alarm opacity issue I described here still exists.

[2] All my alarms went off at the scheduled time.  Yahoo!  Seems like a bunch of problems have been fixed.

wayn3w

3 Reply by huckfinn (edited by huckfinn 2007-12-21 11:33:24)

  • From: Chicago, IL
  • Registered: 2007-11-11
  • Posts: 235

Re: 2.6.51 Observations

I also had the Chumby lock up backing out of the Shoutcast screen and while in the Shoutcast screen. When in the shoutcast screen I scrolled all the way to the bottom, it actually scrolled past the last channel and then could not do anything but reset the device. I may not have waited long enough for the watchdog timer to kick in though.

I also had a lockup or slowdown trying to change channels. For a few seconds I could not do anything, no touchscreen or botton response. After a few seconds it recovered and I was able to continue changing channels. I was streaming music from shoutcast while this happened.

Thanks for these continuous updates.

-HuckFinn
  • muks
  • Busy Chum
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2007-11-08
  • Posts: 113

Re: 2.6.51 Observations

The My Streams feature is good. However, punching in the letters/alphabets is a pain. It will be much better if we have the functionality to add it to "My streams" from the shoutcast list by clicking on a station (like bookmarking in IE )
I realize there is still work to be done on USB music...when done, will it show the USB filenames? Also, will it have the ability to ff/rew?

  • Registered: 2007-12-29
  • Posts: 2

Re: 2.6.51 Observations

I've had my Chumby for a month or two now, and it has been a lot of fun. But it does need a lot of work before it is a truly useful product. I liked this thread, so I'll add some additional thoughts on how the latest control panel can be improved:

1. Errors - In trying to add an entry to My Streams, I don't get any error messages when it doesn't work. For example, I tried to tune into KUNC - Colorado NPR station - and only get a single click and then nothing happens. I have no idea what's wrong - is the URL incorrect? Is there a problem with the streaming format? I also don't get any error messages when a station I am listening to begins to drop out - I don't know if packets are getting lost, or the connection has dropped. Some sort of indication would be really helpful.

2. It would be nice to have information on the radio station displayed more prominently - so I know what songs are being played and the radio station. Having the option to scroll it at the bottom of a widget would be nice. Or just to see it when I go to the control panel - instead of having to go to the music section, where there isn't much info anyways.

3. Consistent look and feel - There are too many differences between Shoutcast, Radio Chumby, MediaFly, and My Streams. For example, there is no volume control on the MediaFly planel, and buttons are in different locations. I think it's absolutely critical to have a consistent look and set of controls on each panel.

4. It would be nice to be able to add a channel from Shoutcast or Radio Chumby to "My Streams" so I don't have to constantly search Shoutcast for the same channel, or scroll through Radio Chumby. This would make the top 4 or 5 streams easily accessible.

5. Allow me to set a default audio panel - so if I want I can get to "My Streams" with two clicks instead of three.

6. Too many clicks - I really think it's important to minimize the number of clicks I have to make to do certain things. Changing a channel, changing the volume - all too many clicks. One specific example - when listening to a radio stream and tuned into a channel, I have to hit the top button, select music, and then lower the volume. Why not put a volume control on the main control panel? I understand that screen real-estate is a constant concern, but you could reorganize some of the other buttons (eg. bury the settings menu somewhere else because it is used so little), and add a volume control to the main control panel.

7. Not enough control on the widgets and lack of consistency makes use confusing - there are some widgets that allow me to pause (and therefore stop the timer that changes widgets), and some widgets do not. Some widgets allow me to scroll through text (such as Engadget), and some widgets don't (such as NYT and Google news). Also, some widgets support scrolling by just dragging the text, while others only have a scroll bar on the right hand side. I really like the idea of having each widget be required to support a certain number of controls (such as pause, forward and backward for news streams, single scrolling mechanism, small time display in the corner).

8. I really like the customizable alarm clocks - very well done overall. I was a bit confused by the setting on what to do after snooze is hit - perhaps a better title or explanation for the button would be nice. One comment I do have for the alarm is the ability to change the volume when an alarm goes off. I like to just play a station forever, but want the option to change the volume while it's playing. The window that is played (with the snooze button) should have a volume control so I can easily change the volume without having to hit any buttons.

9. One feature I thought of is an improved night mode. At night, I'd love to have the option to turn off the display, and only see the time if I tap the display (is this technically feasible with the touch screen?). Perhaps the display can turn of for night mode. Then, if tapped, the display will show the time for 5 or 10 seconds, and then turn off again. If I want to get to a channel, then I just hit the display a 2nd time within the 5 or 10 second window. This would save energy (helpful during the day when I'm not in my bedroom), and decrease the light pollution in my bedroom at night. If you can't turn off the display while still keeping the touch screen active, then you could do this through the button on top.

The Chumby is a great idea, but in order for Chumby to succeed, I think it's absolutely critical to have a fantastic look-and-feel and consistent well-thought-out navigation and controls.

I hope this input was helpful. Good luck, folks. I wish you all a huge success with the Chumby.

  • From: New England
  • Registered: 2007-12-05
  • Posts: 31

Re: 2.6.51 Observations

While I generally agree with your comments I have a few points about them...

mgcrose wrote:

3. Consistent look and feel - There are too many differences between Shoutcast, Radio Chumby, MediaFly, and My Streams. For example, there is no volume control on the MediaFly planel, and buttons are in different locations. I think it's absolutely critical to have a consistent look and set of controls on each panel.

I think those sections of the chumby [widgets and media] that are branded or trademarked by other companies are going to have their look and feel governed largely by the look and feel of the trademark/holder.  See my response to #7 below also.

mgcrose wrote:

4. It would be nice to be able to add a channel from Shoutcast or Radio Chumby to "My Streams" so I don't have to constantly search Shoutcast for the same channel, or scroll through Radio Chumby. This would make the top 4 or 5 streams easily accessible.

This would be super nice.  As would a sleep timer to listen to music while falling asleep.  (A separate volume control here would be essential because the volume I fall asleep to is going to be far lower than that of the alarm in the morning to wake me.)

mgcrose wrote:

6. Too many clicks - I really think it's important to minimize the number of clicks I have to make to do certain things. Changing a channel, changing the volume - all too many clicks. One specific example - when listening to a radio stream and tuned into a channel, I have to hit the top button, select music, and then lower the volume. Why not put a volume control on the main control panel? I understand that screen real-estate is a constant concern, but you could reorganize some of the other buttons (eg. bury the settings menu somewhere else because it is used so little), and add a volume control to the main control panel.

I use the settings menu a lot and would not appreciate it being "buried."


mgcrose wrote:

7. Not enough control on the widgets and lack of consistency makes use confusing - there are some widgets that allow me to pause (and therefore stop the timer that changes widgets), and some widgets do not. Some widgets allow me to scroll through text (such as Engadget), and some widgets don't (such as NYT and Google news). Also, some widgets support scrolling by just dragging the text, while others only have a scroll bar on the right hand side. I really like the idea of having each widget be required to support a certain number of controls (such as pause, forward and backward for news streams, single scrolling mechanism, small time display in the corner).

See my response above regarding trademark holders...  while I agree with your frustration, and that some changes may be able to be made, I also think there are a number of things that could not or should not be changed - [ie individual look and feel components by each different trademark holder.] Guidelines for button placement and widget behavior may be possible, but should only be suggestions.  Remember this is an open project - that's a major design point.

  • Registered: 2007-12-29
  • Posts: 2

Re: 2.6.51 Observations

MeinLein wrote:

While I generally agree with your comments I have a few points about them...

mgcrose wrote:

3. Consistent look and feel - There are too many differences between Shoutcast, Radio Chumby, MediaFly, and My Streams. For example, there is no volume control on the MediaFly planel, and buttons are in different locations. I think it's absolutely critical to have a consistent look and set of controls on each panel.

MeinLein wrote:

I think those sections of the chumby [widgets and media] that are branded or trademarked by other companies are going to have their look and feel governed largely by the look and feel of the trademark/holder.  See my response to #7 below also.

I don't see this as an impediment to having consistent controls. See my response below, as well.

mgcrose wrote:

4. It would be nice to be able to add a channel from Shoutcast or Radio Chumby to "My Streams" so I don't have to constantly search Shoutcast for the same channel, or scroll through Radio Chumby. This would make the top 4 or 5 streams easily accessible.

MeinLein wrote:

This would be super nice.  As would a sleep timer to listen to music while falling asleep.  (A separate volume control here would be essential because the volume I fall asleep to is going to be far lower than that of the alarm in the morning to wake me.)

A sleep timer is a fantastic idea, and I agree completely with the separate volume control. This is something that I have looked for in regular alarm clocks and have never found.

mgcrose wrote:

6. Too many clicks - I really think it's important to minimize the number of clicks I have to make to do certain things. Changing a channel, changing the volume - all too many clicks. One specific example - when listening to a radio stream and tuned into a channel, I have to hit the top button, select music, and then lower the volume. Why not put a volume control on the main control panel? I understand that screen real-estate is a constant concern, but you could reorganize some of the other buttons (eg. bury the settings menu somewhere else because it is used so little), and add a volume control to the main control panel.

MeinLein wrote:

I use the settings menu a lot and would not appreciate it being "buried."

What are the key items in the settings menu that you use? Perhaps the main control panel should be reorganized so critical items are one click away, while less important items are two or three clicks away.

mgcrose wrote:

7. Not enough control on the widgets and lack of consistency makes use confusing - there are some widgets that allow me to pause (and therefore stop the timer that changes widgets), and some widgets do not. Some widgets allow me to scroll through text (such as Engadget), and some widgets don't (such as NYT and Google news). Also, some widgets support scrolling by just dragging the text, while others only have a scroll bar on the right hand side. I really like the idea of having each widget be required to support a certain number of controls (such as pause, forward and backward for news streams, single scrolling mechanism, small time display in the corner).

MeinLein wrote:

See my response above regarding trademark holders...  while I agree with your frustration, and that some changes may be able to be made, I also think there are a number of things that could not or should not be changed - [ie individual look and feel components by each different trademark holder.] Guidelines for button placement and widget behavior may be possible, but should only be suggestions.  Remember this is an open project - that's a major design point.

I'm not convinced by this argument. When I open up an application in Windows or a Mac (both open platforms for which anyone can write an app), there is always the same buttons in the upper-right hand corner for maximizing, minimizing, and closing an app. There is almost always a toolbar with "File" "Help" and other dropdown menus. There are always scroll bars on the right hand side. All this consistency makes each app seem familiar, and reduces the amount of time it takes to get familiar with individual apps. These guidelines can be imposed if Chumby Industries wants to, and I don't think they impose any sort of burden on the widget developer or trademark holder. They can still be allowed to arrange certain buttons, choose their color scheme, display their logo, and display their data however they see fit.

Ultimately, the success of the Chumby (and the value it creates for Widget developers) will be governed by how useful the device is. Simplicity of design and good UI development is often overlooked, and is often the reason for why someone stops using a product. As has been the case with VCRs in the past, and digital cameras in the present - 99% of the people buying those devices only use 10% of the features (not a scientifically established number, but you get the point). So good design should always focus on making the most used features the easiest to access. My experience with the Chumby is this hasn't been the case, so much. So just raising the point (as have others) to help out the developers.

  • From: New England
  • Registered: 2007-12-05
  • Posts: 31

Re: 2.6.51 Observations

mgcrose wrote:

I'm not convinced by this argument. When I open up an application in Windows or a Mac (both open platforms for which anyone can write an app), there is always the same buttons in the upper-right hand corner for maximizing, minimizing, and closing an app. There is almost always a toolbar with "File" "Help" and other dropdown menus. There are always scroll bars on the right hand side. All this consistency makes each app seem familiar, and reduces the amount of time it takes to get familiar with individual apps. These guidelines can be imposed if Chumby Industries wants to, and I don't think they impose any sort of burden on the widget developer or trademark holder. They can still be allowed to arrange certain buttons, choose their color scheme, display their logo, and display their data however they see fit.

Ultimately, the success of the Chumby (and the value it creates for Widget developers) will be governed by how useful the device is. Simplicity of design and good UI development is often overlooked, and is often the reason for why someone stops using a product. As has been the case with VCRs in the past, and digital cameras in the present - 99% of the people buying those devices only use 10% of the features (not a scientifically established number, but you get the point). So good design should always focus on making the most used features the easiest to access. My experience with the Chumby is this hasn't been the case, so much. So just raising the point (as have others) to help out the developers.

smile  I think I agree with you here - really.  It would be easier from an end user pov, as well as easier to support.  And I personally like that every windows app almost always follows the same design principles.  Microsoft doesn't impose those standards though, they are a suggestion.  Web sites would be another good example - designs that work are designs that become popular, but there isn't any real imposed design standard to making a web ui.

Remember I agree with you in principle, but I guess I'm more libertarian (linuxian?) in my beliefs as to how they get there.  Maybe it's just semantics, and we really just agree and that's what counts.  I don't know.

There does need to be some hashing out (either by the community or chumby industries - I hope both) of what works well, and perhaps what to avoid for widget development best practices.  Then, at least, I would expect the branded widgets to follow to suggestions - the home made widgets I would love to see follow the guidelines, but not be booted off the site for it.  Like there's lots of shareware and some commercial apps that still don't follow those standards - they are at least available to check out.  If it's got a crappy interface, then don't use it. 

But the big ones - definitely.  Some QA on those. big_smile

I'm very glad to see your comments and suggestions - it would be great if more chumby owners would speak up too.  (Like you, with solutions and not just complaints...)