Topic: Windows 8 (with a small rant)

Well the wife wanted a new "small" computer for her craft area. I ended up with a Lenovo that has Windows 8 installed.

My wife is not very tech oriented so I knew she would not be able to handle the new interface. Heck she cannot handle XP!

After reading many, many, many, reviews on programs to make Win8 more like Win7 and XP I settled on Start8 from Stardock. No, I do not own stock in the company or work for them ect ect. I just wanted a simple solution to the interface conundrum. It does cost a whopping $4.99.

So now I really want to know is why M$ did not do this in the first place, why the "Blue update" still will not do this, why does the corporate world put up with such crap?

I was able to purchase the newest MS office from work for $10.00 and it is crap as well.

I am sick and tired of being told what I want instead of the companies listening to what I want.

Is this the start or the end of being screwed by the big software companies?

Re: Windows 8 (with a small rant)

infocastme wrote:

Is this the start or the end of being screwed by the big software companies?

Pretty deep point. I think it's both the beginning and the end. In the good old days, companies would sell us software for inflated prices, but at least we got to keep it "forever" or close to it. Now they don't want us to own anything- they just want us to "rent" it all with a subscription. Or, a lot of 'programs' are free or close to it. But then it all "updates" automatically and installs new spyware or adware with each update. It's a new level of being screwed, pioneered by Google, Adobe, and all. A cute widget for your Android is free, it just 'calls home' to tell exactly where you are and what you're doing all day. MS is just jumping on that bandwagon late.

I just bought a laptop because it still came with Windows 7, even though it wasn't exactly the kind of machine I wanted. But it will still let me run things like Office 2003, which I truly "own" and can use on as many computers as I want. And everything works without an internet connection.

I guess there's still some hope from the (true) open source community. Remember when Asus put out the first netbooks with linux and OpenOffice, how sensational they were? I still wonder how and why those faded into bloated Windows machines so soon.

Please keep us posted on how your wife adapts to Windows 8. I know I'm going to have to move on eventually. Let the rant continue.

Re: Windows 8 (with a small rant)

bobsz wrote:
infocastme wrote:

Is this the start or the end of being screwed by the big software companies?

...still let me run things like Office 2003, which I truly "own"


Remember when Asus put out the first netbooks with linux and OpenOffice, how sensational they were? I still wonder how and why those faded into bloated Windows machines so soon.

If you read your license agreement for Office 2003 you will find you do not "own" it either.

Netbooks with linux pre-installed faded away because Microsoft realized the threat netbooks with linux posed and started offering Windows XP licenses for almost nothing and reportedly used some veiled threats to manufacturers concerning availability of bulk licenses in the future to OEMs who did not "play ball".

As far as Windows8 is concerned, Microsoft is indeed trying to catch up. They want an interface that is consistent across all of their products (phone, entertainment console, tablet and PC). They want usage of one to draw users into the other because it is familiar. People generally don't like having to learn new interfaces for all their electronic "stuff". Apple is slowly making their desktops more like their phones and tablets too. The other reason for the new interface on Windows8 is to push everyone into using the Microsoft store. Microsoft sees how much money Apple is making on software, much of which they did not even write, and they want to duplicate that model. It actually makes a lot of sense from this point of view. The customer does not have to like it, only the stock holders. The problem is Microsoft hasn't got a clue how to get its customers from the old model to the new model without pissing everyone off so they just charged ahead with the changes. I guess they feel their current near monopoly status will let them weather the storm.

I rarely ever boot into Windows (version 7) anymore. Only when I need InDesign or Photoshop. I actually paid for the licenses for both. I will never "upgrade" to the new rent model though. Too expensive for a poor home user. Hopefully by the time I can't get them to work anymore on newer hardware/OS there will be other alternatives. GIMP/Scribus are not really alternatives.

Tar, feathers, congress. Some assembly required.

Re: Windows 8 (with a small rant)

Just to chime in, I know that people would just like their computer to work and not have to tweak and fiddle with it. Why wouldn't you? At the risk of repeating a refrain that has been around a long time....why not install a linux distro as dual boot? Ubuntu and others have live CD's that you can try. Some have installers that start from Windows. You can still have Windows until you get used to Linux, and yes there are some essential programs for Windows that don't have counterparts in linux (or don't run under emulators). However, I started dual booting more than 15 years ago when 'X' was the only desktop. The distros have improved immensely since then. IMHO, Libre office is fine for most tasks, and GIMP does well for most graphics work although it does have a steep learning curve. If you boot linux every day though, and spend an hour with it, before long, you'll find yourself using it more and more. Then one day, you'll realize suddenly that you know more about your linux o/s than it is even possible to learn about Windows.

Depending on your particular needs, it may be a while before you get used to it, but if your wife is just browsing, using email, or playing music and videos, it shouldn't be a long learning curve. My wife actively resisted using any PC's until about two years ago. When she finally decided to give it a whirl, I set up an older Pentium laptop for her with only Mandriva on it (eventually switched it to Lubuntu). She is a whiz on it and has never even been exposed to windows.

One last point, I never had a problem with software companies making a profit for their hard work, but like many (most) other consumer situations today, you have no choices. You have to buy what they want to sell you. Development is driven by a model premised on maximizing revenue in the shortest possible time rather than going for long-term customer satisfaction. The latter model IMHO will eventually bring greater profits and revenue, but it just takes too long for today's "bird-in-the-hand" mentality corporate weenies.

Free software is not about not paying for it; it is about getting what you want or need.

Brian, #1 Joan Jett Fan

Re: Windows 8 (with a small rant)

Joan Jett wrote:

Free software is not about not paying for it; it is about getting what you want or need.

Exactly! I love using Linux Mint (with Mate) because it works the way I want it to work. Linux has come a long way from when I first started playing with it (Corel Linux). Now I can install Linux Mint and everything works without any effort. I am past the days wanting to fiddle with my OS. Now I just want my computers to work and have the OS get out of the way. I understand linux isn't for everyone, but most people would be shocked to see how easy it is to use. If you like the distro you are using please consider donating to them. It makes you feel good and helps ensure they continue to create new versions.

OpenOffice and LibreOffice are very good. Gimp is good for casual use but cannot replace Photoshop (I have used Photoshop professionally for a long time). Scribus still needs much work.

Tar, feathers, congress. Some assembly required.

Re: Windows 8 (with a small rant)

Joan Jett wrote:

Depending on your particular needs, it may be a while before you get used to it, but if your wife is just browsing, using email, or playing music and videos, it shouldn't be a long learning curve.

I would have loved to have her run a flavor of linux but she has a few programs that do not play nice. She is using a version of Greetings Workshop from the mid 90's even though I have bought other programs to get her to try new features.

I have a linux box that I play with and do some programming on. Biggest problem is the rest of the world. Work has a web portal that will only work with Windows and IE. My last job had the same thing. Hard to be the leader when all the other sled dogs are in front!

BoloMKXXVIII wrote:

The other reason for the new interface on Windows8 is to push everyone into using the Microsoft store.

If I want to use "widgets" I have an android tablet. My desktop is my computer. I have no use for widgets.

BoloMKXXVIII wrote:

Gimp is good for casual use but cannot replace Photoshop (I have used Photoshop professionally for a long time).

Adobe has gone to a subscription model only on the new CS software. Will not be able to buy it in a box and will start to orphan support for their older versions.

Re: Windows 8 (with a small rant)

infocastme wrote:

I have a linux box that I play with and do some programming on. Biggest problem is the rest of the world. Work has a web portal that will only work with Windows and IE. My last job had the same thing. Hard to be the leader when all the other sled dogs are in front!

Your work sucks.  The worst I have is that the mail server runs outlook and the web portal is the only way I can do things like edit server-side filters and it forces certain versions of things.  Chrome on linux isn't supported and forces you into "light" mode that doesn't give you those features.  I have a user-agent plugin to fix that though.

Linux Guy - Occasional Chumby Hacker

Re: Windows 8 (with a small rant)

Thought I'd chime in on this, as a new user of Windows 8.

I don't like that you have to use third-party addons to make the OS look more familiar; I think it's totally bogus.  Fortunately I found a free one that suits my needs: Classic Shell.  It brings back the Start Menu, and goes on to disable the Windows 8 "charms" (the hot-corners that make annoying crap pop up if your mouse wanders too far into a corner when going for the Start button or close button), offers an option to bypass the start screen at startup, and lets you fully customize the look and behavior of your Start Menu.

I also don't like that the Win8 UI refers to everything as "taps" -- for example, when I connect my phone via USB, I get a little box that says "Tap here to choose what happens with this device".  I don't have (or want) a touch screen mother@#%*er, I click my g@#%*$n mouse button.  Really, would it be so hard to detect whether the primary pointing device is a touch interface or traditional mouse/trackball, and say "click" or "tap" as appropriate?  I don't give a $^@* what Microsoft wants, my desk space is too valuable for a "Surface" style display, and a 24" touch-screen monitor would give me some serious RSI in my right arm (or I'd have my scrawny left arm and a hulked-out right arm from holding it out all the time to tap around on the screen).  Additionally, as a frequent user of graphics applications, a touch interface is way too imprecise for my needs.

All in all though, with some extra software, a few hours of tweaking (including running some third-party patches and some registry diving), I've been able to bring Win8 to some semblance of a decent desktop operating system.  Of course I find myself spending more and more time in my Ubuntu VM (where I do all the heavy lifting for the Chumby sites!) tongue

Re: Windows 8 (with a small rant)

What an "upgrade"! Windows8 makes you spend so much time making it usable. Start8 or Classic Shell to make it usable, no DVD / BluRay support, no Windows Media Center (it can be purchased). I fully expect the next full update (not 8.1) to be a subscription. Microsoft has wanted to move to a subscription model for a long time. I think that is why they are pushing use of their cloud...so you are so invested you have no choice. Xbox one is the harbinger of things to come. If only I could get a true equal to Photoshop & InDesign (now a subscription model too) and a simple replacement for WMC all for linux I would have no need to use Windows at all. As it is I spend 95% of my computer time outside of work in Linux Mint.

Tar, feathers, congress. Some assembly required.

Re: Windows 8 (with a small rant)

Very much agree. This is such a sad time to be buying a PC/Laptop. We just got one as a gift for one of my wife's students. Couldn't find Windows 7 preinstalled. It's a really nice ASUS laptop, but loaded with the crippling Windows "Ate".

Brian

Brian, #1 Joan Jett Fan

Re: Windows 8 (with a small rant)

I still have an unused Windows7 license that I am keeping for my next desktop build (dual boot with Linux Mint). My only worry will be the availability of drivers for a new computer.

Tar, feathers, congress. Some assembly required.

Re: Windows 8 (with a small rant)

If you buy a technet license $349 from MS, you get approx 10-20 keys for EVERY MS operating system and product.  These can be used for evaluation as long as they arent used in 'production'

BTW, most companies will be doing Win7 drivers for a long time, or at least until win7 support vanishes.  I Work at night for Best Buy and we cannot sell a win7 machine anymore!!!

Re: Windows 8 (with a small rant)

philhu wrote:

I Work at night for Best Buy and we cannot sell a win7 machine anymore!!!

Not surprising. Microsoft is forcing the issue. Windows7 is still available online but most people would be afraid to install an OS by themselves. They use whatever comes with the machine, like it or not. When the computer becomes slow from viruses, bit rot, or whatever they go out and buy another computer. If Windows8 is all that is offered, that is what they get.

Tar, feathers, congress. Some assembly required.

Re: Windows 8 (with a small rant)

My simple solution is to not use windows!  It's been working great for me for about 10 years.  I only recently had to upgrade for a little side-project I was helping test that required a version of .NET that isn't available for my winXP VM.  I now have a winXP VM and a win7 VM that get booted about once every two months.  To me, that's more than enough windows...

Linux Guy - Occasional Chumby Hacker

Re: Windows 8 (with a small rant)

Materdaddy wrote:

My simple solution is to not use windows!  It's been working great for me for about 10 years.  I only recently had to upgrade for a little side-project I was helping test that required a version of .NET that isn't available for my winXP VM.  I now have a winXP VM and a win7 VM that get booted about once every two months.  To me, that's more than enough windows...

What do you use? Linux? The problem for me is that a lot of software isn't ported to Linux. Also, the removal of Flash is a problem, and there's the horrible desktop environments Unity and GNOME 3. GNOME 3 is actually worse to use than Windows 8, and there's lots of bugs and missing features (EG: Shutdown button and minimize/maximize).

Re: Windows 8 (with a small rant)

nathanm wrote:
Materdaddy wrote:

My simple solution is to not use windows!  It's been working great for me for about 10 years.  I only recently had to upgrade for a little side-project I was helping test that required a version of .NET that isn't available for my winXP VM.  I now have a winXP VM and a win7 VM that get booted about once every two months.  To me, that's more than enough windows...

What do you use? Linux? The problem for me is that a lot of software isn't ported to Linux. Also, the removal of Flash is a problem, and there's the horrible desktop environments Unity and GNOME 3. GNOME 3 is actually worse to use than Windows 8, and there's lots of bugs and missing features (EG: Shutdown button and minimize/maximize).

Not to take this thread too off-topic (even though it's in the "off topic" section), I'll address your questions here:
http://forum.chumby.com/viewtopic.php?pid=47467#p47467

Linux Guy - Occasional Chumby Hacker

Re: Windows 8 (with a small rant)

You can still buy some Win 7 computers- I just double-checked online. As of tonight, Dell has several models on their online store. HP online has 4 models. Sometimes the problem is finding them. You have to search by OS or you'll never see them. Some other makers have them in their "business" categories. Some of the bigger "New York" online stores also still have them if you search by OS. Choices are fading fast.

I just bought an HP Probook with Win 7 last month and was thrilled I made it under the wire. I agree it would be best to leave Windows altogether, but I have several old programs I'm pretty fond of.

Re: Windows 8 (with a small rant)

nathanm wrote:
Materdaddy wrote:

My simple solution is to not use windows!  It's been working great for me for about 10 years.  I only recently had to upgrade for a little side-project I was helping test that required a version of .NET that isn't available for my winXP VM.  I now have a winXP VM and a win7 VM that get booted about once every two months.  To me, that's more than enough windows...

What do you use? Linux? The problem for me is that a lot of software isn't ported to Linux. Also, the removal of Flash is a problem, and there's the horrible desktop environments Unity and GNOME 3. GNOME 3 is actually worse to use than Windows 8, and there's lots of bugs and missing features (EG: Shutdown button and minimize/maximize).

I too have software that cannot be duplicated under linux. Dual booting works great for me. As for Unity vs. Gnome3, have you tried Cinnimon or Mate?

Tar, feathers, congress. Some assembly required.

Re: Windows 8 (with a small rant)

BoloMKXXVIII wrote:
nathanm wrote:
Materdaddy wrote:

My simple solution is to not use windows!  It's been working great for me for about 10 years.  I only recently had to upgrade for a little side-project I was helping test that required a version of .NET that isn't available for my winXP VM.  I now have a winXP VM and a win7 VM that get booted about once every two months.  To me, that's more than enough windows...

What do you use? Linux? The problem for me is that a lot of software isn't ported to Linux. Also, the removal of Flash is a problem, and there's the horrible desktop environments Unity and GNOME 3. GNOME 3 is actually worse to use than Windows 8, and there's lots of bugs and missing features (EG: Shutdown button and minimize/maximize).

I too have software that cannot be duplicated under linux. Dual booting works great for me. As for Unity vs. Gnome3, have you tried Cinnimon or Mate?

I use Gnome 2X still with Debian Squeeze.  I did try Unity for a while and that was actually the "last straw" that got me to move from Ubuntu to Debian.

Linux Guy - Occasional Chumby Hacker

Re: Windows 8 (with a small rant)

I have to use Windows, for Photoshop, InDesign, and Illustrator, as well as the various games I play.  I have an Ubuntu VM set up in VirtualBox though, and am slowly migrating more of my daily tasks into that, lol.