Topic: Chumby microphone / audio and customer support and returns

I've officially asked for an RMA number, and here's why.   I am having some issues with recording via microphone.  It might be hardware, it might be a driver, it might be the fact that /dev/dsp is 8 bit and it naturally sounds like crap.   I don't have a Linux box outside of a VMWare environment to do testing and when I asked Chumby about the problem, I got this response:

Bob,

Unfortunately we are not supporting the microphone function at this time, however it may be supported in future developments. We do have a few links that might help you. Our hardware support board might have a few suggestions for you at http://forum.chumby.com/viewforum.php?id=8 . and we do have a Wiki which provides useful information as well, http://wiki.chumby.com/mediawiki/index. … e#Hardware .  Please feel free to contact us if you have any other inquiries. Thank you for your interest in Chumby.

Sincerely,
Johnnie

Chumby Support

If they won't support the hardware they sell, then I really have no choice but to return this thing.  Be warned if you plan on buying one of these devices.

-Bob

Re: Chumby microphone / audio and customer support and returns

i think it's important to keep in mind that the microphone is a bit of a bonus. it replaced the questionably-useful light sensor relatively recently.

This is jut me, but i never saw the mic as a key feature (ala http://www.chumby.com/story)

I've also followed Bunny's posts about the quest for quality in the mic http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=187 to trust that it'll work when that functionality is supported.

Re: Chumby microphone / audio and customer support and returns

The intent is to provide a software update to use the microphone at some point.  The low level drivers are already there - what's missing currently is an "official" application that utilizes it.

People were (very, very loudly) telling us they wanted to buy chumbys even before everything was completely supported. We accomodated them.

Many of the issues that people are reporting are because they're not adjusting the gain, and talking too loudly, too close to the device.  The default gain is set to pick up normal conversation from up to ten feet way.

Re: Chumby microphone / audio and customer support and returns

My tests show an overwhelming amount of noise, with or without me speaking.  BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ throughout the recording.  Either my testing methods are not valid or there is a hardware or driver problem.  I'm doing a very simple test like this:

cat /dev/dsp > /tmp/output.txt
<talk or whatever>
Hit Ctrl-C to stop recording.

To playback I did this:
cat /tmp/output.txt > /dev/audio

I encourage everybody to test their system this way and let me know how it goes.  I mentioned above that I do not have a dedicated Linux box so I really have no way to test this outside the Chumby.  If anybody would mind doing this test, I would greatly appreciate it.   The problem I have is not with the audio drivers, potential hardware problems, etc.  It's with the fact that Chumby.com's tech support is unwilling to assist in any way. 

Imagine if Dell tried to pull this by saying "well, we're not currently supporting the hard drive...."

-Bob

Re: Chumby microphone / audio and customer support and returns

OK - I've flagged bunnie on this issue.

Re: Chumby microphone / audio and customer support and returns

rdarlington wrote:

My tests show an overwhelming amount of noise, with or without me speaking.  BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ throughout the recording.  Either my testing methods are not valid or there is a hardware or driver problem.  I'm doing a very simple test like this:

cat /dev/dsp > /tmp/output.txt
<talk or whatever>
Hit Ctrl-C to stop recording.

To playback I did this:
cat /tmp/output.txt > /dev/audio

Are you sure that's the proper way to record data from the microphone and play it back?

rdarlington wrote:

The problem I have is not with the audio drivers, potential hardware problems, etc.  It's with the fact that Chumby.com's tech support is unwilling to assist in any way. 

Imagine if Dell tried to pull this by saying "well, we're not currently supporting the hard drive...."

Huh?  No, since there is no software currently using the microphone just yet, why would you insist on saying it must be supported already?

That's just insane...

Re: Chumby microphone / audio and customer support and returns

gregkh wrote:
rdarlington wrote:

My tests show an overwhelming amount of noise, with or without me speaking.  BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ throughout the recording.  Either my testing methods are not valid or there is a hardware or driver problem.  I'm doing a very simple test like this:

cat /dev/dsp > /tmp/output.txt
<talk or whatever>
Hit Ctrl-C to stop recording.

To playback I did this:
cat /tmp/output.txt > /dev/audio

Are you sure that's the proper way to record data from the microphone and play it back?

Actually, in reading the alsa documentation, this should not work at all, so no wonder it isn't happening for you smile

Try playing around with amixer, and make sure your microphone is actually turned on (by default it is off), before trying to record from it.  For more details, please see the ALSA site (this link should give you a good place to start with http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php/Record_from_mic).

Re: Chumby microphone / audio and customer support and returns

At the command-line, we recommend you use 'arecord'.

Re: Chumby microphone / audio and customer support and returns

I bought hardware for $179.  What's insane is thinking I wouldn't be supported.  So far no e-mail back on my request for an RMA.    Don't turn this into a flame war because you feel differently than I do about what chumby.com should and should not be obligated to do. 

To answer your question, no.  No, I'm not sure that's the best way or the right way to test.  It's the only way I know how at this point and it's terrible.  No amount of asking anybody here or elsewhere has resulted in somebody running that simple test on another machine and reporting back. 

Ever see Apollo 13?  Ya know the scene with the air scrubbers where the guy says something like "we need to make this square filter fit in the round hole for this, using nothing but that..."  Not a single person in that room said anything about alsa drivers, doing a spacewalk to the nearest 7-11 to get a roll  of tape, etc. 

Fact is, I am able to record my voice using this test, it just sound terrible.  Try it, don't contribute to the noise, the chumby makes enough as it is.

10 (edited by gregkh 2007-11-20 11:20:02)

Re: Chumby microphone / audio and customer support and returns

rdarlington wrote:

Fact is, I am able to record my voice using this test, it just sound terrible.

That is because this is not how you are supposed to interact with the microphone.  See my above hint as to reading the alsa documentation, and the other hint on how you shoul use the arecord program.

Re: Chumby microphone / audio and customer support and returns

Sounds great, I'll give this a try and will report back.  Thank you.

Re: Chumby microphone / audio and customer support and returns

As gregkh has pointed out, this is simply not the proper way to use the driver.  The chumby drivers are built to support ALSA.

To do this test properly, you should do:

# arecord -f cd /tmp/output.wav
(talk, hit Ctrl-C when done)

# aplay /tmp/output.wav

As I mentioned elsewhere, the gain is pretty high by default, so you may get some clipping if you talk too loudly.

The microphone goes through two QA checks at the factory, so we're pretty confident that it works when used properly.

13 (edited by Tommy 2007-11-21 16:52:07)

Re: Chumby microphone / audio and customer support and returns

(Retracted comments because I was wrong.)

Re: Chumby microphone / audio and customer support and returns

Duane, thank you.  This test worked fine.  I grew up with Linux and the OSS driver.  Alsa is kinda new to me, but that's why I'm posting here for help.

Tommy, please examine the feature set closer, here it is for you:
Release Hardware Version Code 0307 "Ironforge" — main board

Release code 0307 supports the following features:
Note: all specifications are subject to change on future releases

    * 350 MHz ARM controller (MX21 by Freescale)
    * 32-bit 64 MB SDR SDRAM running at 117 MHz bus speed
    * 64 MB NAND FLASH ROM
    * 320x240 3.5" TFT LCD with 3-state LED backlighting
    * Touchscreen input
    * Stereo 2W speakers with hardware mute
    * Headphone output with headphone presence detection
    * Microphone input with programmable AGC
    * Squeeze sensor (to pick up when you squeeze the chumby)
    * 3-axis Accelerometer (+/-2g range @ 12 bits resolution)
    * Three USB 2.0 full-speed (12 mbps) ports, one on the main board and one on the outerware electronics
    * 802.11g connectivity via a USB dongle plugged into the main board
    * Circuitry to detect the presence of wall adapter power and auto-fallback to backup battery power
    * Switching power supply network that can eat between 6V and 14V
    * Cryptoprocessor for authentication and system management (full device access over JTAG)
    * Daughtercard ID management system for device personalization
    * Available SPI bus on the chumbilical bus
    * Serial debug port set to 38400 8N1

-Bob

Re: Chumby microphone / audio and customer support and returns

rdarlington wrote:

Duane, thank you.  This test worked fine.  I grew up with Linux and the OSS driver.  Alsa is kinda new to me, but that's why I'm posting here for help.

ALSA's been around since the late 90's, was built into the Linux kernel in 2.5.5 in 2002 and is the default in 2.6 - OSS has been officially deprecated since around 2003.  ALSA provides an OSS emulation layer for backwards compatility, but really, nobody should be using it anymore.

I presume this means you will not be returning your device as defective?

Re: Chumby microphone / audio and customer support and returns

This is true, I will be keeping it.   I've been a Linux coder (including various bits of kernel code) since 1993 -sorta.  Right around 1996 I kinda gave up on Linux for commercial UNIX.  Due to a previous job starting in 2002 had to get up to speed again and get certed as a RedHat weenie, so there was a good gap in there.  I missed out on the whole ALSA thing.  Sound was not something I ever had to worry about since writing fm syth chip code back in '93 (the console beep annoyed me so I "fixed" it) so I didn't even know about it till very recently.

My issue was not that it worked or not.  It was that tech support said that it's not supported and that I was on my own when all I wanted to do was verify that it worked.  If it was defective hardware, they sure as heck better do something about it.  Obviously we determined that it's not defective, all is well, etc.  I just didn't appreciate being abandoned by the company I just forked over hard earned money to, just so I could write software (for free, I might add) that will bring value to this product.  It was a bit of a slap in the face, ya know?  I realize you (Duane) are probably somewhat removed from first line tech support, so I do appreciate your time on this.  I actually worked with the tech support guys for a few days on the AVS issue you guys had with the credit card verification that was kinda broken, just because I thought this product had some potential.  Usually my attention span would've had me onto the next big thing the first time my card was declined due to an "address mismatch", but not in this case.

Anyway, just to be clear, and to restate, I never had an issue with the hardware, or software.  It was the fact that tech support abandoned me and suggested I try here.  I thank everyone involved for helping me out on this issue, and I'm glad to say that my microphone works just peachy.

-Bob

Re: Chumby microphone / audio and customer support and returns

Bob,

Ah ha, that's in the developers section of the site. I hadn't thought to look there. From your perspective as a developer, I think you're correct that you should have received better support on that. And thus, I retract my comments above.

Tommy

Re: Chumby microphone / audio and customer support and returns

Well, I guess I should make it clear that you were talking with Customer Service, not "Tech Support".  They are not trained engineers and most highly technical questions are referred to here, where the actual engineers hang out.

There is no classic "Tech Support" of the type you're describing.

Note that you're quoting the hardware specifications for the motherboard, which is not a definitive list of chumby "features" as currently exposed to the user.

Re: Chumby microphone / audio and customer support and returns

If it makes ya feel any better, your post caused me to thump the line in China and get them to put an extra double quality check on the microphones. We really want them all to work once the full end to end system software support is in place for them.

Nothing of course guarantees that the operators get it right--in the factory, every chumby is tested by a girl who speaks into the microphone and then listens to the recording -- this is repeated twice -- to verify that it works right, but the evaluation of "did it sound good" ultimately is somewhat subjective and we are always trying to improve our operating procedures to be more specific about what sounding good means.

7BAA 2E53 01C1 DCFF 497B  E7F0 9699 A303 78F0 D9B9

Re: Chumby microphone / audio and customer support and returns

All I can say about Duane, bunnie, and the rest of the people at Chumby: they are saints. They put up with a lot of crap over trivial things and stay totally calm and collected about it. I suppose they probably had a feeling there would be some of this because their product is so unique and people see what it should do and what its limitations are differently. You guys are a lot more patient than I am, that is for sure.

Re: Chumby microphone / audio and customer support and returns

I'm delighted to see that our "tech support" seems to be working so well.  A request in the proper place, the Forum, elicits nearly instantaneous responses from our top engineers.  And this for a "feature" that we've said nothing about publicly and that we, truly and in fact, don't yet support -- but eventually will, when we get around to it and figure out what people want.  A bit different from a hard drive on a PC, I would think, because not fundamental for operation nor would, I hope, anyone buy a chumby at this point expecting the microphone to work.  Thanks for everyone's interest, and patience -- this is absolutely how the Forum is supposed to work.

Re: Chumby microphone / audio and customer support and returns

Hello -- Duane mentioned that there is a way to adjust the gain on the Chumby microphone -- does anyone know exactly how this is done?

Thanks!