Re: Default file structure / tree

Hmm, by "USB dongle" I assumed Duane meant actually plugging something into the USB port.  I had no idea that Chumby's may ship without a USB port unless one pays extra.  Very interesting, indeed.

I think that could be a bad idea.  I could see some interesting use coming out of the woodwork later for that USB port that nobody has thought of yet, *if* everyone has one.  Seems to be an enabler for possibilities too great to leave out, IMHO.  And yes, I mean for the masses, not just us gearheads.

Besides, I want to plug in a bluetooth adapter, have it recognize my bluetooth keyboard, and write a Flash movie that is an IRC client.  That seems like a perfectly reasonable thing for an alarm clock to do.  wink


--Donnie

Re: Default file structure / tree

You and your damn alarm clock! tongue

Re: Default file structure / tree

I didn't mean that chumbys would ship without an external USB port, although that is possible since we haven't fixed on anything yet.

What I meant is that if somebody puts out a set of widgets with the requirement that the user have a dongle connected in order to operate, that would be very short-sighted.  I think that will be very rare in the real world.

Re: Default file structure / tree

Ok, gotcha.

Obviously, making a widget that requires an external source of data is a bad idea, but no one is really planning to do that. But providing support for that is a definite must-have.

Re: Default file structure / tree

Just to add the common, non-geek girl perspective...I think it would be sensible for the alarm clock part of the device to work with or without wireless access. Two reasons...one, I did a quick poll of my friends, most didn't quite get why an alarm clock would need wireless access 24/7. They felt it didn't need to be connected if they didn't want to access internet content but, of course, wanted the clock on all the time...probably because... two, it seems to be fairly common practice that you pull out the ethernet cable from the modem when you have finished using broadband and plug it back in when you want to use it so *bad things* don't get into your computer. Also, there is a perception that it will be continually downloading content and take people over their download limit and rack up big bills with their ISP. Have you had focus groups look at chumby yet? What did they have to say?

Re: Default file structure / tree

Angela, are you in the US? In the US broadband is fairly cheap, and there are no limits on the amount of data you can download. So there's no real issue in having it "always on". I know very few people who disconnect their modems because of bandwidth issues. Security issues, yes, but those guys are psychos! wink

An Alarm clock *should* work without an internet connection, and no one saying it shouldn't, or wont.

The safety issues about it "taking over your computer" is exactly what most of this thread was about, and the bottom line that if you download a widget (like an Alarm Clock) from the Chumby.com website you can be certain that it is safe for use, and will not do anything malicious for two reasons:
1. If it's comng from the Chumby website, it is likely that someone tested it and said it is safe for use.
2. It CAN'T do anything other than show you a blank screen. It doesn't even has access to the data on the Chumby. The way widgets are loaded from the Chumby website protects you from anything bad happening to you, just like the Flash plugin in your browser does.

Re: Default file structure / tree

i think forcing somebody to use a separate piece of hardware is a bit harsh, but say you wrote a media player widget, by default it could play internet radio stations, and music off of samba shares, and if you wanted, play stuff of USB sticks.

need upload space for the forums or a chumby blog? right here then
http://www.nophus.com/useru
username is chumby
password is chumby

Re: Default file structure / tree

Where to start?!

OK...I'm in Australia. The friends I refer to are not psychos or "simple" as you put it, but fairly average consumers. They are not IT experts and have the ususal misconceptions and gaps in their knowledge regarding network security. These misconceptions are fueled by sensationalist stories in our popular media. They are trying to be safe rather than sorry. Broadband is not that expensive here but family budgets are becoming much tighter with rising interest rates, petrol prices and the costs of childcare. Many families with children are overcommitted financially and are starting to feel the pressure. This is influencing their consumer behaviour. Broadband accounts do have download limits or sometimes speed shaping.

senseBOP wrote:

An Alarm clock *should* work without an internet connection, and no one saying it shouldn't, or wont.

I think you said it...

senseBOP wrote:

It is going to very important that users will be able to save any and all widgets installed on the Chumby locally, so that they can be run locally if one chooses to. That way, people like Donnie can have their alarm clock work even when not connected to the web, without requiring them to have two separate versions of the same widget.

senseBOP wrote:

The safety issues about it "taking over your computer" is exactly what most of this thread was about, and the bottom line that if you download a widget (like an Alarm Clock) from the Chumby.com website you can be certain that it is safe for use, and will not do anything malicious for two reasons:

I did understand the thread and at no time mentioned security issues involving chumby's widgets. I was referring to my friends' general security practices regarding their home networks and how this may influence their perceptions of chumby as a product.

Duane wrote:

How much management of the storage should be presented to the chumby user?  Is there now a full file browser?  How do we handle full media, locked files, permissions, etc?  Is this *really* something we want somebody to have to deal with to use a chumby?  Isn't this all just trying to turn this into a computer?

Duane...I realise that allowing users to access local files is a problem. I view chumby as a device that will sit on my bedside table, be my clock, a digital photoframe and deliver me the news headlines (plus the other content that will become apparent when you launch the subscription service). The next most logical application for chumby, in my mind, is as an e-book or e-document reader so I could read in bed. Maybe the solution to this is not allowing the user to access e-books in local files but providing a subscription service to them...something like an e-library....(Have you thought about this? If it's a new idea, I'll be expecting my commission cheque in the mail. Either that or a job offer wink  )

Re: Default file structure / tree

Angela wrote:
senseBOP wrote:

An Alarm clock *should* work without an internet connection, and no one (is) saying it shouldn't, or wont.

I think you said it...

senseBOP wrote:

It is going to (be) very important that users will be able to save any and all widgets installed on the Chumby locally, so that they can be run locally if one chooses to. That way, people like Donnie can have their alarm clock work even when not connected to the web, without requiring them to have two separate versions of the same widget.

I don't understand your quote here. Are you saying that the two quotes contradict each other? If so, I disagree. They both say the both thing: The Alarm Clock should work with or without an internet connection.

Angela wrote:
senseBOP wrote:

The safety issues about it "taking over your computer" is exactly what most of this thread was about, and the bottom line (is) that if you download a widget (like an Alarm Clock) from the Chumby.com website you can be certain that it is safe for use, and will not do anything malicious for two reasons:

I did understand the thread and at no time mentioned security issues involving chumby's widgets. I was referring to my friends' general security practices regarding their home networks and how this may influence their perceptions of chumby as a product.

So are you saying the Chumby should have no access to a hardware device such as a USB drive or your local network at all? What if you have 10GB of MP3z on your local PC, which is downstairs in the office, and you want to use the Chumby as an alarm clock/radio? Why should you have to pay Chumby Corp. extra money so they can stream you their MP3z? Or, lets say they don't charge you for that, or you make your own widget that streams the MP3z for free, why should you have to go through that, if you already have your files locally?

Angela wrote:

Duane...I realise that allowing users to access local files is a problem.

Angela wrote:

The next most logical application for chumby, in my mind, is as an e-book or e-document reader so I could read in bed. Maybe the solution to this is not allowing the user to access e-books in local files but providing a subscription service to them...something like an e-library....(Have you thought about this? If it's a new idea, I'll be expecting my commission cheque in the mail. Either that or a job offer wink  )

Allowing access to local files is realy not that big of a problem. As was said before in this thread, this problem is solved by the way the Flash plugin works; If you run a widget from the web it will not have access to your local files, but if you install(run) it locally, like most of the new Flash games on the web, it'll have access to your local files.

And as for the eBook idea, I've beat you to it, though I'm pretty sure they thought about it before. Like you said, it's quite a logical thing to do. smile

senseBOP wrote:

or they will want to use the Chumby as an eBook reader that plays MP3z in the background while they read.

Re: Default file structure / tree

Chumbians - please dive in and correct me if I'm wrong...the water's warm...

1. The clock *should* always be visible. I agree with you. However, both you and Donnie stated that it *won't* work if chumby does not have a wireless connection. The alarm clock widget needs the connection...unless it runs locally. Can someone clarify this?

2. Duane has already given a tentative answer on the local file system issue.

duane wrote:

You'll be able to create widgets, put them on a USB storage device, and have them run
in the normal rotation of widgets configured from the network. Those local widgets will
have the ability to access local file systems, and even upload stuff to the network.

It is also covered here. I agree with you...problem solved...for the minute.

3. Why would I want to use my chumby to play MP3s when I have an iPod and a surround sound system? I don't want to use a chumby for MP3s and never mentioned this issue. I do understand your point. I think the MP3 issue has been adequately covered here. I think I would be happy with a subscription service, or even streamed radio, for music to wake up to...I've had the same ring tone on my mobile for three years...it's not a high priority for me personally.

4. Aside from being a plaything for hackers, the chumby is both a household appliance and a loss leader for a subscription service. Why would Chumby Industries want to make it too easy for consumers? The company is relying on consumers following a pathway to paid subscription services for both its profit and return on investment. Also, by adding too many features to the prototype they increase their risk of faults/returns which they can't afford to do with a small startup. Be thankful they have given you the *privilege* (and, yes, legally this is what it is) to hack the device. I don't see Sony doing this for the Mylo.

5. I am a crafter and a maker. I am not a software/hardware/flash developer. I feel like I am basically the lone voice of the average female (somewhat tech-passive) consumer in this forum. Hopefully, my posts add balance. I belong to a research group that focuses on the touchy-feely side of IT so I tend to see things throught that lense as well. (Occasionally, my comments may appear a bit off the beaten path - this is why).

6. The e-book idea? roll I was being facetious. Steve, bunnie, Duane and Joe didn't just blow in.
But...if you really want to turn this into a competition...read this thread wink

Re: Default file structure / tree

The chumby does not require a valid wifi connection to operate as a clock - it has a built-in alarm sound, and you'd have to set the time manually (with a connection, it uses the Internet to set the clock).