Topic: Must software be Flash?

I'm a little confused on how software on the Chumby will work. Widgets, written in Flash, will be made available from Chumby's web site. But are widgets the only type of software that is supposed to be run on Chumby? Are they the only type of software that will get to use a GUI?

Must widgets be written in Flash? I'm unfamiliar with Flash's abilities with respect to programming. Can I call a compiled app from a SWF?

Are widgets the only type of software that will be presented to users? If a user wants to run some app compiled for a Chumby (ie ARM assembly, not Flash), how will they do so?

Re: Must software be Flash?

this is what i was thinking about. i think the whole flash widgets concept is a bit too restrictive.

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Re: Must software be Flash?

Mono wrote:

... If a user wants to run some app compiled for a Chumby (ie ARM assembly, not Flash), how will they do so?

Yeah, you can do this. Check out the developer's section on the chumby website (you have to register). You can download the SDK too.

Re: Must software be Flash?

At this point, we will only be supporting widget implemented in Flash from our site.

There's no assurance that all future chumbys will be running the same operating system, the same processor, or the same hardware configuration (screen size, etc).  Flash delivers a level of platform independence, as well as eliminating issues of size.  For instance, the bulk of our current widgets are under 30K, some as small as 2K.

Also, Flash movies encapsulate everything the widget needs - images, text, fonts, audio - into a single, compressed file, and the entire thing can run from memory alone, which allows a completely clean runtime environment for the next widget.  Flash also has excellent backward compatibility - Flash 3, 4 and 5 movies will play just fine on Flash 9.  All this, in a single 1MB executable.

We have provided an SDK for folks that want to create their own executables, however, at the moment it is unlikely that will be deploying them as part of our service.

This is, of course, subject to change.

Re: Must software be Flash?

flash just seems a bit limiting. i doubt you could write a simple web browser in flash (because of some of the removed features).

need upload space for the forums or a chumby blog? right here then
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Re: Must software be Flash?

We considered the approach of making a web browser the primary layer.

There were many issues with that.

1) A browser that is compatible with a reasonable fraction of sites would be large. You'd need to fully support all the variants of HTML, CSS, Javascript, etc.

2) Many popular websites are very rich in content - they require plugins such as Java, Flash, QuickTime, Windows Media etc to give a good experience.  Many of those technologies aren't available for ARM, and those that are require a lot of licensing.

3) Most websites would be unusable on such a small display, and with only a touchscreen for input.

4) We're not building an interactive computer.

There are many vendors that sell devices that run browsers.

But fundamentally, we're trying to make something *different*, not something you already have just in different packaging.

Re: Must software be Flash?

yeah, but some people would be willing to make small 320x240 sites specifically for chumby. i know i would.

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Re: Must software be Flash?

...so why not make a prettier, animated widget in Flash if you're going to the trouble anyway.  It will look better, act better, be smaller, and be able to take advantage of the functionality that the chumby provides.


Most of the widgets are designed to be viewed from 4 to 5 feet away - it's not about scrolling pages of 10pt text.

Re: Must software be Flash?

never said it was. my idea was to modify the media page on my site, but put it to autoscroll. have the picture as a button, and display 2 or 4 vids at a time.

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Re: Must software be Flash?

Nothing stops you from writing a Flash app that fetches content dynamically from your site and autoscrolls it. In fact several sites around the world do just that.

Re: Must software be Flash?

i had a try with that OpenLaszlo. OMFG that is amazing. i love it. id love to write my site in that, but its a shame my host doesnt support it. its amazing.

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Re: Must software be Flash?

Yeah, I've never much liked Flash myself. When it was introduced all those Flash intros started poping up, and to use it they want you to buy this big bulky program. I've always prefered mixing HTML, Javascript and Perl for web design, plus Java if necessary. But seeing as I just got Flash with the Macromedia Studio pack thingie for my easy A web design class, I guess I'll look into it. tongue
But as for web browsing, I think that offering a full web browser would be too much of a pain, and widgets would be great for most all purposes. Mmm...Hack A Day without the computer...

Re: Must software be Flash?

not really a full browser, but one for browsing chumby size sites.

need upload space for the forums or a chumby blog? right here then
http://www.nophus.com/useru
username is chumby
password is chumby

Re: Must software be Flash?

Duane wrote:

At this point, we will only be supporting widget implemented in Flash from our site.

...
Flash delivers a level of platform independence, as well as eliminating issues of size.  For instance, the bulk of our current widgets are under 30K, some as small as 2K.

Why not go with a java implementation then? This would give developers the flexibility of a fully functional programming language, while still providing you with the ability to change any part of the chumby.

I mean some of us, like myself, might have a low level hack in mind which requires system level software be written and some hardware modification as well.

Re: Must software be Flash?

A ful JVM with libraries would be much bigger than the FlashLite VM. A J2ME VM may be around the same size but it doesn't really give you anything more than FlashLite. And Flash is much easier and powerful for graphical interfaces than J2ME.

Re: Must software be Flash?

Why not go with a java implementation then? This would give developers the flexibility of a fully functional programming language, while still providing you with the ability to change any part of the chumby. I mean some of us, like myself, might have a low level hack in mind which requires system level software be written and some hardware modification as well.

Well, nobody's stopping you from getting a J2ME implementation up and running, I believe some ARMs that they're currently evaluating even have Jazelle (Java Bytecode interpreter that runs natively on the ARM's hardware), which would be a huge boon. Combine it with Flex and you'd have quite the platform.

However, and I'm only speaking on my own behalf, not of the Chumby designers, I just don't believe it's that sell-able as an architecture on its own. Flash gives them the unique advantage of attracting thousands of developers who have experience with making web pages or Flash documents or games, which is generally a less feature oriented crowd and are generally more accepting to the certain design challenges present in coding for Chumby. On the other hand of the spectrum, the Java guys are mostly engineer-types, who scoff at Chumby for not having this feature or that feature, and would think of it more as a chore than fun to code for.

Hands down, Flash is simpler to design for, and it offers a broader base for people who don't necessarily have experience to get involved, and from the sounds of how well their code works, it looks like it'll be a very sturdy platform to build on top of. While it's not as open as we'd all love it to be, that may change in the future, especially with the attention Chumby is already drawing.  I think Flash makes a much better shipping interface for the unit, but I wouldn't count Java out if you're really into Java and really want to see it run on Chumby.

All-in-all, it's your hardware. Do with it what you want.