Re: Flash - Academic Licensing and Widget Creation

chedabob wrote:

openoffice was written from the ground up,with its own format. making opensource flash would mean knowing how the flash file is structured. sort of like how the openoffice guys know how .doc works, but a lot more complicated.

Actually, the Flash file format (.swf) is publicly documented by Adobe/Macromedia, and they encourage people to create products that export that format.  There are many tools that take advantage of that, includng ones that are Open.

However, the documentation comes with a restriction that one can't use it to create a *player*, so many people avoid looking at that specification, choosing instead to reverse-engineer the format.

The "source" file format used by the Flash IDE (.fla) is *not* documented, however, that's not a huge issue.

There have been several aborted attempts to create an Open "Flash Studio" but none have matured to the quality of the commerical product.

As to us funding the development of something like that, that would have to be a ways off - we're a startup, and unlike most other startups, we have a huge fraction of our capital tied up in hardware inventory.  Maybe once we're raking in the big cash... smile

Re: Flash - Academic Licensing and Widget Creation

use an alternative solution then.

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Re: Flash - Academic Licensing and Widget Creation

chedabob wrote:

use an alternative solution then.

For what?

The player?  There currently isn't a viable alternative.  The last time I built Gnash, it came in at 22MB and would only play a handful of movies, and those it did played very, very poorly on this hardware.

For Flash?  Well, we chose Flash for a good reason - the size, performance, features, availability, the size of the existing pool of developers and content, the security, the availability, the cost, the maturity, the support and many other reasons.

Perhaps others might have chosen differently - for those folks, we give away all of the tools so they can implement whatever they wish.  Perhaps someone will come up with an alternative that has all of the benefits and none of the downsides of Flash.  If that happens, nobody would be happier than us.

29 (edited by chedabob 2006-09-29 12:25:32)

Re: Flash - Academic Licensing and Widget Creation

flash seems very restrictive though, cos from this thread, weve determined that quite a few people have access to school copies of flash, but not pro versions, therefore they cannot sell their work. whereas, if you chose something different, maybe like ASM (ok, bad example) it might make life a whole lot easier for those of us without access to flash pro. ipod linux is written in ASM, and they have done amazing things. my 3g ipod plays video (not very well), plays a whole bunch of formats that it couldnt originally, and ive got a bunch of games. Besides, ASM has a lot of code already available for ARM, so it might make porting existing applications a little easier, or at least example code for people to learn from.

EDIT: just bin reading on google. as far as i know, there exists a Python interpreter for ARM processors. OK, its not that great, but its a start. and the not so tech-savvy members of the community could have a go at writing console apps.

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Re: Flash - Academic Licensing and Widget Creation

chedabob wrote:

flash seems very restrictive though, cos from this thread, weve determined that quite a few people have access to school copies of flash, but not pro versions, therefore they cannot sell their work. whereas, if you chose something different, maybe like ASM (ok, bad example) it might make life a whole lot easier for those of us without access to flash pro. ipod linux is written in ASM, and they have done amazing things. my 3g ipod plays video (not very well), plays a whole bunch of formats that it couldnt originally, and ive got a bunch of games. Besides, ASM has a lot of code already available for ARM, so it might make porting existing applications a little easier, or at least example code for people to learn from.

We have a perfectly fine C compiler for ARM in our dev kit - I see no reason for anyone to write assembly for ARM.  If you want to, however, the compiler supports in-band assembly.  The tool you're asking for is already available.

EDIT: just bin reading on google. as far as i know, there exists a Python interpreter for ARM processors. OK, its not that great, but its a start. and the not so tech-savvy members of the community could have a go at writing console apps.

Instructions for running Python on the chumby can be found here.

There's no shortage of hacker tools and languages that can be used for writing software for the chumby - however, Angela's looking for something inexpensive that someone that's *not* a programmer can use.  It seems that Flash Studio would be a nice choice except for the price.

The restrictions you're complaining about aren't inherent in "Flash" as a technology - this is a restriction on a *particular* distribution of their authoring tool.  In exchange for heavy discounting, they're placing some restrictions.  If you don't like those restrictions, they offer a different version without them, admittedly with a higher price.

Again, if you don't like Flash, don't use it.  We give you everything you need to create something else.

Re: Flash - Academic Licensing and Widget Creation

see, i dont have access to a dev kit, so i didnt know that tongue

can i have a chumby cos i have 200+ posts ? tongue

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Re: Flash - Academic Licensing and Widget Creation

Duane wrote:

There's no shortage of hacker tools and languages that can be used for writing software for the chumby - however, Angela's looking for something inexpensive that someone that's *not* a programmer can use.  It seems that Flash Studio would be a nice choice except for the price.

Exactly smile

If I really wanted to I could have a copy of Flash professional tomorrow...as could anyone with decent credit that thought the software would earn them their money back quickly. You can create all you like on the academic version. When you think you have something good enough to sell...share it...if someone likes it go and buy the professional license before you sign the contract.

I'm actually thinking of people in the community that definitely can't afford to purchase Flash8Pro but may benefit from learning to create for chumby, and the resultant benefit, particularly in terms of information sharing and education, for the rest of their community...read this post again...

FlashLite is important for chumby because it will provide the richest content experience on a small screen wireless device (I think).

"Creative" people use Adobe products, not necessarily products for coders like Ruby/Python etc. Using Flash is  the best choice considering the prime target users of chumby. It is mainly going to be for people that want to consume content...but also create and distribute content...user-created content is what makes YouTube popular and is why it is taking people's time away from TV.  I think that will be a big part of the appeal of chumby. The "connected youth" market have academically-licensed Flash and therefore can share amateur projects. Professionals can provide the premium content for subscription services etc. (Save your pennies and get a licensed copy of Flash Basic...it costs about $200-300 more than the academic version - if you're any good Chumby Industries might just create a path for you to earn that money back relatively quickly (notice I didn't say "pay you back"...important distinction).

Duane wrote:

As to us funding the development of something like that, that would have to be a ways off - we're a startup, and unlike most other startups, we have a huge fraction of our capital tied up in hardware inventory.  Maybe once we're raking in the big cash... smile

That satisfies my curiosity about this possibility. Not being in software I wasn't sure how complicated or expensive that would be to do and wanted to know if it was viable. Now I can seek other short term solutions...but you never know...chumby might spark off a community of developers that will do this for us eventually.

Thank you.

Don't forget the little people when it takes off!  wink

Re: Flash - Academic Licensing and Widget Creation

im just looking into possibilities for people to write software, that dont have access to the funds to buy a flash pro license.

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34 (edited by Webkitchen 2006-09-30 09:29:12)

Re: Flash - Academic Licensing and Widget Creation

Hey guys,

I forwarded this question to one of my contacts within Adobe. On Thursday, he told me he was still trying to get the info so it's still on his radar. In case you're wondering, I'm the co-manager for the Adobe Usergroup in Belgium and I forwarded this question to the developer relations manager within Adobe. So hang in there... Definite information is coming...

Serge

@Duane: Don't worry... I sent this mail in my name.

Re: Flash - Academic Licensing and Widget Creation

www.scrapblog.com actually fills the gap for my software needs....It is free, pretty and I'm fairly certain can be used to create widgets for chumby to display the images and information I would like to communicate. It is only static at the moment...but I can live with that.

I am so happy to see scrapblog become available...what an incredible case of synchronicity! I ask and the universe delivers instantly! Yay! (And it's pretty, appealing to young girls/women who I want to involve in tech...fits into a paradigm they already understand...woohoo!).

I won't actually need Flash to do what I want to do now...and we won't have to develop anything. Problem solved for me, at least.

See my first page... http://www.angela.scrapblog.com/zara/

Chumbians...you might want to sneak a peek at their licensing agreement...it is a good model, in some aspects, for the new chumby licensing agreement. It was easy for me to understand and I didn't fall asleep...always a plus if you want people to understand and comply! smile

Re: Flash - Academic Licensing and Widget Creation

right, adobe got back to me. basically, you can create whatever you want in the academic version, but not sell it comerrcially. BUT, you can choose to upgrade the academic version to the full version for the upgrade price. so if my understanding is correct, you could supply a few people with copies, see what they think, and if there is the demand for it, upgrade to the full version, and then sell it.

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Re: Flash - Academic Licensing and Widget Creation

I think that is what I said...

Angela wrote:

You can create all you like on the academic version. When you think you have something good enough to sell...share it...if someone likes it go and buy the professional license before you sign the contract.

Re: Flash - Academic Licensing and Widget Creation

tongue i was just confirming it, just in case one of us misread the EULA.

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