Re: Turning back on after a power outage

darundal wrote:

Bunnie, could you get one of the people who didn't think that the Chumby turning itself back on after a power outage, like most of my other electronics (and most assuredly my pre-Chumby alarm clock) was MORE intuitive than the expected behavior to write something up explaining why? I really can't wrap my head around the idea that not turning itself back on is more intuitive than turning itself back on.

Totally agreed, and it is a shame. Two potential Chumby customers have been turned away because of it that I know of so far. Both are friends of mine and when they asked me how I liked my Chumby, I had to tell them the truth. I like it for all the wrong reasons. It is a cool device, don't get me wrong. But I bought it to replace my alarm clock primarily, and this is what the Chumby fails at most. If this oversight was worked out, it might just be worth the $180 price tag. As it sits now, if this isn't resolved soon, I'll be selling mine. I've been a huge proponent for the Chumby for quite a while now, but enough is enough at this point. If it can't suit my needs as an alarm clock, I'll sell it and keep looking.

27 (edited by wkearney99 2008-08-14 08:57:07)

Re: Turning back on after a power outage

I agree with Matt's suggestion to having a selectable return of power state.  Most (all?) new PCs have this option in their BIOS. 

I cannot begin to imagine under what circumstances anyone that's used a Chumby for a while would ever want it NOT to power itself back on due to power loss.  But then my understanding that perspective doesn't matter.  What does matter is that I dislike it not returning to life after power failure and would appreciate having it as an option. 

I'd be willing to pay to ship my chumby back to have it upgraded, or be willing to swap out it's guts with a field replacement option.  I'd be willing to secure the transaction through a credit card or paypal.  As in, take my CC#, send me the parts and bill me if I don't return them within X number of days (or bill me and refund it). 

It's enough of a deal breaker for me that it does limit my desire to encourage others to purchase one.  I've been in this business long enough to know better than to espouse a gadget that I'll only catch flak for it's perceived problems.

Re: Turning back on after a power outage

I am hoping someone can give some tips on this one.  We had a freak storm last night (lightening hit a tree in front of my house, FIRE!) we lost power, and this morning Chumby won't power up.  I've left it unplugged, and pressed every button I can find.  Is there something special I need to do to bring it back to life?

Re: Turning back on after a power outage

cbreeze wrote:

I am hoping someone can give some tips on this one.  We had a freak storm last night (lightening hit a tree in front of my house, FIRE!) we lost power, and this morning Chumby won't power up.  I've left it unplugged, and pressed every button I can find.  Is there something special I need to do to bring it back to life?

Check the Wall-Wart and make sure its not dead. It should read 12volts DC. Do you have a volt meter (DMM) or access to one that you can check it with? If not, see if you have a wall-wart from another piece of equipment that will fit it and that you know works.

You need to make sure of serveral things first.
That its the correct voltage. Too much will blow it up and too little can damage it, can supply the needed current and the polarity is correct

The OEM wall-wart is rated at 12-volts DC 1-amp.
So if you have one that is 12volts DC, and at least 1amp or larger and has the same polarity (outside ring is negative and the middle is positive) then it should work.

Re: Turning back on after a power outage

Thanks for the reply.  So even though my AC adapter is on a surge protected power bar, I might still have an issue with the wall-wart?  What a bummer.

31 (edited by rotus8 2008-08-15 10:18:27)

Re: Turning back on after a power outage

You could also try putting a 9V battery in the clip inside the case on the bottom. It won't run very long, but can help track down where the problem is.

Re: Turning back on after a power outage

cbreeze wrote:

Thanks for the reply.  So even though my AC adapter is on a surge protected power bar, I might still have an issue with the wall-wart?  What a bummer.

Yea, it can be. Some of those power strip style surge protectors are pretty usless. One thing that I have done, was to use a Surge Protector on my whole house at the AC main coming in at the main breaker box. It installs in the breaker box.

Check this out, this one is by GE, but I assume other make them...

CAVEAT: High Current is at your breaker box, more then enough to kill you; unless you are 100% sure of what you are doing, have a profesional or brother-in-law do it...(unless your brother-in-law is not a licensed electrician)

http://www.geindustrial.com/cwc/Dispatc … d=thqlsurg

http://www.aplussupply.com/break/ge/pics/thqlsurge.jpg

Re: Turning back on after a power outage

Wow...good idea.  Thanks for all the help.  I am going to try these tips and see if I can get any life back in my Chumby.  Everything else powered back up fine on that power bar, so the Chumby must be extra sensitive.  Missing my chum already.

Re: Turning back on after a power outage

Just wanted to note that my issue was resolved, and customer service took care of me quickly, and friendly like.

Thanks.

Re: Turning back on after a power outage

So, back on topic. We really need the device to power on after power failure, just like every other electronic appliance in existence. I would really like this to be done without needing any special equipment or tearing the thing apart.

Re: Turning back on after a power outage

Can someone (an admin) enable polls for this forum?  It might be useful to be able to vote on this issue, and get a proper feel for the consensus.  From what I can gather, the general concensus is in favour of restoring power to it's previous state.  Indeed, if no-one has actually manually switched it off, then I think it's a fair assumption that they did not intend for it to be switched off.

Is there another technical reason against restoring the on state?  I'm thinking perhaps there perhaps is an issue of the hardware (or software) being damaged/corrupted in some way...

Re: Turning back on after a power outage

I think the problem stems from the CP not having persistent storage, correct?  The default behavior is either 1) turn on when AC power is applied or 2) the opposite.  To restore to the last state you have to know the last state and that isn't stored anywhere that the CP can access by itself.

I would like to see this as a possible scenario:

1) Power is removed, CP recognizes it and shuts down the system keeping just itself alive at low current (assumes 9V connected).  Sets a flag.
2) Power is reapplied and if the flag set it will turn back on.  If no flag then its the first time AC is applied and it will stay off.

Re: Turning back on after a power outage

The CP does not have persistent storage, nor can it detect the presence of AC power vs DC power.

Re: Turning back on after a power outage

Crap I was thinking of the TSC2100 which has nets for battery and DC.  Looks like on current hardware all we can do is reprogram the STR711 to just power up *shrug*

Re: Turning back on after a power outage

cdvma wrote:

Crap I was thinking of the TSC2100 which has nets for battery and DC.  Looks like on current hardware all we can do is reprogram the STR711 to just power up *shrug*

Which is fine and this is what needs to be done. Again, I need it done without special equipment or tearing apart the Chumby. If this can't be done, or if Chumby is unwilling to fix this problem, then I need to know. I need to sell this thing and move on to something that will work for my needs. I need to let people know to stay away from the Chumby if they are expecting to use it as an alarm clock. I'd hate to have to do it, because I like the Chumby in every other way, but above all I need it to be a reliable functioning alarm clock.

What is the official word here?

Thanks.

Re: Turning back on after a power outage

The current device operates as it operates.  The firmware in the STR711 cannot be modified in the field without taking the device completely apart and using special equipment.

To make a change like this in the STR711 functionality requires a change on the manufacturing line in China.  Nothing practical can be done for already manufactured units.

Re: Turning back on after a power outage

Given the design decision that was made, I have chosen to keep my Chumby (router, cable modem, etc.) plugged into an uninterruptible power supply and it all just stays on.  That said, there is always the wall-mounted power supply that could fail, or cord fall out of the back of the Chumby, or something else could cause me not to be alerted to an alarm, but with the recent changes and backup alarms, I'm feeling rather secure in my Chumby being reliable in most situations (knocks on wood/head).

Re: Turning back on after a power outage

Wow. You guys really dropped the ball on this. I wish I would have known prior to purchasing the Chumby that it is pretty much useless as an alarm clock. So, no plans to offer a service of sorts to fix this huge oversight? Maybe an exchange program to get a non-broken Chumby? I can't even fathom the reasoning behind doing this. Was it just so the Chumby could be different from all other electronic devices?

I hate to be rude about this, but this is very frustrating. Once I found out about this, I figured it would be okay. I could just put a 9V in there and it would come back up after a power failure. Well, it doesn't. Having to purchase a UPS for an alarm clock is absurd as well.

Re: Turning back on after a power outage

These chumbys are not "broken" - they do what they were designed to do.  The chumby was not designed to be an alarm clock - it was designed to be a widget player.

As I mentioned in another thread, if we had set out just to make an alarm clock, we would have made different design decisions. We would not have bothered with a touchscreen, we would have eliminated the accelerometer and the USB ports.  We might have gone with a cruder screen.  That, and other changes, would have allowed us to work within the power budget of a 9V battery for an appropriate period of time to survive an extended power outage and have the juice to play an alarm.  It also would have had the effect of getting the price in a range that makes much more sense for an alarm clock - the current device is absolute overkill, as many bloggers have noted.

Everyone points to articles written by people completely unassociated with chumby as "proof" somehow that the chumby is an alarm clock.  If we had a time machine, perhaps we could go back and redesign the chumby to match what some people have come to consider it.

However, when we designed the device, we had no idea that people would latch so strongly to alarm functionality.  The alpha prototypes only supported a single daily built-in alarm with no snooze, and hardly anyone complained because they used it for its actual purpose for which it was designed - playing widgets.  Alarms were considered a nice bonus, but not even remotely core functionality.

It's probably our fault that we listened to our users and added such rich functionality to alarms, because it ends up giving users the completely wrong impression about what the device actually is, without thinking through the product perception implications.

Re: Turning back on after a power outage

dwatson wrote:

Was it just so the Chumby could be different from all other electronic devices?

You know what? I don't think any of my electronic devices switch themselves back on after a power outage. My TV doesn't, my computer doesn't, my HDMP doesn't. Oh, my router does, so that's one. My washing machine doesn't. My turntables don't.

Oh, but hang on - my Batman alarm clock does. But...when the power comes back on, it's set to midnight and it's forgotten what time the alarm should go off. So that's no use either.

To suggest that this is standard behaviour that no other electronic device exhibits and  the Chumby is somehow perverse to do it the other way round is disingenuous at best.

(and tbh, I still can't believe that power outages are such a common occurrence for you guys. Weird...)

46 (edited by burkhardi 2008-08-22 09:42:11)

Re: Turning back on after a power outage

Duane,
Have y'all thought about a Chumby-lite? A unit that (as you pointed out) had no USB, no accelorometer, and had a cheaper screen, 9v battery and an el-cheap-o snooze button? The current chumby would make one heck of an alarm clock. I love how you can still read it in nite mode w/o making the whole room glow, and the programable alarms y'all have are awesome. I know certain widgets could not work, but that is fine too. If there was one like this at $99, I would buy it.

Just my 2-cents worth, Matt

Oh yea, your last part about listening an perhaps making a too rich feature set: I have one word...
Chumby-too (The next generation, for the power Chumbian!)

Three Chumbies for all your Chumbalistic needs and Chumazation, it would be Chumtastic!
Chumby-Lite
Chumby
Chumby-Too

EDIT: The Chumby-Lite would be alcohol free wink

Duane wrote:

These chumbys are not "broken" - they do what they were designed to do.  The chumby was not designed to be an alarm clock - it was designed to be a widget player.

As I mentioned in another thread, if we had set out just to make an alarm clock, we would have made different design decisions. We would not have bothered with a touchscreen, we would have eliminated the accelerometer and the USB ports.  We might have gone with a cruder screen.  That, and other changes, would have allowed us to work within the power budget of a 9V battery for an appropriate period of time to survive an extended power outage and have the juice to play an alarm.  It also would have had the effect of getting the price in a range that makes much more sense for an alarm clock - the current device is absolute overkill, as many bloggers have noted.

Everyone points to articles written by people completely unassociated with chumby as "proof" somehow that the chumby is an alarm clock.  If we had a time machine, perhaps we could go back and redesign the chumby to match what some people have come to consider it.

However, when we designed the device, we had no idea that people would latch so strongly to alarm functionality.  The alpha prototypes only supported a single daily built-in alarm with no snooze, and hardly anyone complained because they used it for its actual purpose for which it was designed - playing widgets.  Alarms were considered a nice bonus, but not even remotely core functionality.

It's probably our fault that we listened to our users and added such rich functionality to alarms, because it ends up giving users the completely wrong impression about what the device actually is, without thinking through the product perception implications.

Re: Turning back on after a power outage

tismey wrote:

I still can't believe that power outages are such a common occurrence for you guys. Weird...

Well said, lets fix the problem, not the symptom...

The symptom is the Chumby not waking up, the problem is power loss.
This is not meant to hack anyone off or be a flame, but it's 2008 and unlike 1989, my power is very robust. I might loose it twice a year.

Caveat: I live in a big town, perhaps that is why. Some people in smaller towns (one in the country with many, many trees) still might see power loss a lot. If so, call you pwoer company and lodge a complaint (not that it will help, but it makes you feel better wink ). THe COA (City of Austin) comes around every two years and trims tree limbs back from the power lines to keep pwoer loose down and to prevent any fires from sparks.

Regards, Matt

Re: Turning back on after a power outage

Have y'all thought about a Chumby-lite?

We've certainly considered building a lighter weight chumby device, however, we've held off for practical economic and logistics reasons.

We're still ramping production on the current model - if we create a new model using different parts and split the market, we lose all of the economies of scale that we're in the process of creating. The volume discounts change, there are fixed upfront costs in setting up production lines, etc.

At the moment, putting out another model could have the effect of making both models more costly than the single model.

Apple took nearly three years before they diversified the iPod line to include low-end models.  While they churned through several "classic" models before then, they typically only kept a couple (typically the same model but with different storage) in production at any one time. Only when the line was firmly established did you see the minis, the nanos, the various color options, etc.

Re: Turning back on after a power outage

Duane wrote:

These chumbys are not "broken" - they do what they were designed to do.  The chumby was not designed to be an alarm clock - it was designed to be a widget player.

That's a good point.  I've wanted a Chumby for a while (waiting for one on order at the moment), but I don't think I really knew _why_ I wanted it so much until I read your post.  I thought I wanted it as a cool alarm clock that I could wake up to different stuff... but really that's not the case at all.

I want it because it's eminently hackable, highly distinctive, geeky (in a cool way), and most of all, because it's primary function is determined more by the user than the designers (which is also I feel where the problem of how to define what "Chumby" is to the non-tech person).  Oh, and not to forget the open-source/community driven development.  And I love that Chumby developers seem dedicated to sticking with it for quite some time while it matures.

So,  now I think about it, I agree there is a real danger in completely losing the point of what it's about, if reviewers and critics are going to refer to it as an alarm clock, then that's what people will be looking for in it if they see something in the review that they like.  It doesn't help when you visit chumby.com, and the first sentence you see is "wake up to your internet life", and a clock saying 7am, which definitely conveys "alarm clock", albeit almost on a subconscious level.  If you want to make Chumby's image more dynamic and versatile than a humble clock, then perhaps some of that wording and imagery could change...

When asked why I wanted a Chumby, I found a similar problem... all I could think of was that it "does stuff", and that they would need to look at one to see for themselves.  Hopefully when mine arrives, and I can show them the cool stuff I'll get installed on it, then Imight be able to convince them to buy one too ;-)

Re: Turning back on after a power outage

burkhardi wrote:
tismey wrote:

I still can't believe that power outages are such a common occurrence for you guys. Weird...

Well said, lets fix the problem, not the symptom...

The symptom is the Chumby not waking up, the problem is power loss.
This is not meant to hack anyone off or be a flame, but it's 2008 and unlike 1989, my power is very robust. I might loose it twice a year.

Caveat: I live in a big town, perhaps that is why. Some people in smaller towns (one in the country with many, many trees) still might see power loss a lot. If so, call you pwoer company and lodge a complaint (not that it will help, but it makes you feel better wink ). THe COA (City of Austin) comes around every two years and trims tree limbs back from the power lines to keep pwoer loose down and to prevent any fires from sparks.

Regards, Matt

roll We have this stuff here, called wind. And lots of it. We get power outages maybe 5 times a year. Still, those are times that my alarm clock may not go off the next day because it is in a default sleep mode. Regardless, it happens and so it should be dealt with at the device level.

I now realize that I had the wrong impression of the device. I'm going to go ahead and blame Engadget for that. Their article about the Chumby is what sparked my interest in it. They basically billed it as an alarm clock on steroids. Since that really wasn't the intended main function of the device, it is my fault I purchased it thinking it would do well as an alarm clock. Please don't think that you shouldn't add features for your customers. When you start acting on that, you will quickly lose your customer base, especially with a device like this.

So, I apologize that I had the wrong impressions of what the device was mainly for. I'm stuck though. I really like the Chumby, but I really need a reliable alarm clock. Not sure if I'm going to end up selling it yet or not.