Re: Chumby Complaints

jhaluska wrote:
wm.annis wrote:

This is a completely dishonest comparison.  How much I pay for my Gmail: $0.  How much I'd pay for a Chumby: $179 + change.

Not to play devils advocate, but you also had to pay for your computer's hardware too.  I think Gmail's delivery of their advertising is better done than Chumby Inc.  They don't surpass my fairly low ad pain threshold.

You beat me to the punch. I was going to mention the cost of computer hardware.

I do agree that Googles system, and Chumbys are much different, but they do fall under the same idea.

I don't see how Chumby can do this any other way and keep a majority of its users happy.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Re: Chumby Complaints

jhaluska wrote:
wm.annis wrote:

This is a completely dishonest comparison.  How much I pay for my Gmail: $0.  How much I'd pay for a Chumby: $179 + change.

Not to play devils advocate, but you also had to pay for your computer's hardware too.

That's hardly relevant.  I didn't pay Google for my computer, but that deranged and lovable digital dictator, Steve Jobs.  Everything I need the computer to do it will do without shoving ads at me, and I get to pick and choose what ad-supported web services — if any — I want to use.  There's no way to do that with the Chumby without severing the device from much of the very functionality that makes it interesting.

Re: Chumby Complaints

wm.annis wrote:

Everything I need the computer to do it will do without shoving ads at me, and I get to pick and choose what ad-supported web services — if any — I want to use.  There's no way to do that with the Chumby without severing the device from much of the very functionality that makes it interesting.

I think that an important distinction is the feeling of a lack of control over the device.  Keep in mind, more ad free choices will come, it is only a matter of time and willpower.  I think we're only seeing the tip of the iceberg.

Re: Chumby Complaints

Is this "ad-stuff" still on ? what's the frequency and length of these appearances? is it written somewhere that the length & frequency will never be bigger than X secondes each Y seconds?

One more question, what's the weight of the shipping box ?

Re: Chumby Complaints

jhaluska wrote:

I think that an important distinction is the feeling of a lack of control over the device.  Keep in mind, more ad free choices will come, it is only a matter of time and willpower.  I think we're only seeing the tip of the iceberg.

If you're wildly successful, we go out of business - no more chumbys for anyone.

That might indeed be what happens, which would mean this whole "chumby" thing was probably a bad idea, and I'll just go back to making closed systems.

31 (edited by jhaluska 2007-11-10 10:01:07)

Re: Chumby Complaints

Duane wrote:

That might indeed be what happens, which would mean this whole "chumby" thing was probably a bad idea, and I'll just go back to making closed systems.

I don't think it's a bad idea, just some of the advantages of an open system comes with their own inherent disadvantages.  I think Chumby Inc's current ad based implementations are poorly done, although they aren't as bad as they could be.  In my eyes Chumby is providing an ad based pseudo operating system where the widgets are the applications.  Fortunately, there are several things working in Chumby Inc's favor:

  - If ads fail, possibility to make money based off hardware alone.  Just won't be able to gouge people on hardware due to the possibility of a competitor coming along.
  - Chumby's OS comes with the System
  - Chumby's OS gives consistent Interface for Widgets
  - People are too Lazy to switch to a different Pseudo OS.

The last is probably the biggest advantage Chumby has.  People leave light switches on all the time when they leave a room because people are too lazy to turn them off, even if all it involves is a fraction of a second and the lifting of their arm.  Ad based services work as long as they aren't annoying enough to overcome the inherent laziness of people.

So on the plus side, Chumby has vertical integration which allows multiple sources of revenue and the incredible laziness that is inherent to humanity.

32 (edited by limbo 2007-11-10 20:03:01)

Re: Chumby Complaints

jhaluska wrote:

The service is not a free service, it is an ad supported service.  I'm paying with my time in one way or the other.  Google is a different than Chumby since they're advertising is shown concurrently with the information.  I know where not to look when using their services...

Wow - I sure wouldn't want you as a customer - "jhalusksa".  Even when you do get something for free and you know it's ad supported, you make it a point "not to look" at what make the service available to you for FREE in the first place instead of paying the money for the version of the service without the ads.

I think it might be a good time to wrap up this thread and close it out.  What was learned:

1.  Chumby Inc. needs to make it clear that the "widget feeds" are ad supported in their product offering.
2.  It would be nice if Chumby Inc. would offer a premium paid-for non-ad subscription plan.

Re: Chumby Complaints

limbo wrote:

Wow - I sure wouldn't want you as a customer - "jhaluska".  Even when you do get something for free and you know it's ad supported, you make it a point "not to look" at what make the service available to you for FREE in the first place instead of paying the money for the version of the service without the ads.

Don't blame me for the poor advertising based business plans of companies.  If a business plan allows for freeloaders, it's going to fail when everybody decides to freeload.  If it is "free" as you say, you won't mind if I don't look at your advertising.  If you don't understand how I don't consider this "free", go to a time share sponsored "free" dinner, and you're realize it's the most expensive free dinner you'll ever have.  If advertising would stop working, we wouldn't have it.  I'm just doing my part to try to create that world.

If you are wondering, I'd be even more disappointed if they tried making it a subscription based service.  I'd just turn a PDA sideways, and put it on my shelf and get almost the same device without all the hassle.

I would have preferred a more traditional business plan where they charged enough for the hardware to be able to pay for the services.  This "free" service wouldn't even be necessary except for Chumby Inc designing it into their their system.  They could have made a different interface for loading, unloading and configuring widgets that doesn't require Chumby.com.

Also, I already paid for the device, the electricity to run the device, and the bandwidth for the device so why does everybody expect me to also pay with my limited attention?  I already have more than enough distractions in my life.

Chumby Inc, from the looks of it, you don't have as much to worry about your business model as I feared, as it appears to be enough ad consuming sheeple out there to support your company.

Re: Chumby Complaints

Unlike pretty much every consumer hardware company out there, we gave you all of the tools to create your own system that can run completely independent of our system.  Nobody's forcing you to use chumby.com - all we're asking is that if you use our servers to feed widgets (ours and those created by third parties that have given us permission to redistribute) to your chumby that you abide by the terms under which we make them available.

If we had bundled the cost of service into the initial price, someone would be here complaining about being charged for a service they don't intend to use.

The chumby can be anything you want it to be if you're talented enough to make it happen. There's really nothing more we can do for someone that insists that everything be "free".

Incidentally, you don't endear yourself to anyone by calling them "sheeple" simply because they make different choices than you do.  And personally, I'm not too keen on your characterization of us as being similar to Microsoft - I can't think of *any* way in which we behave like them.

Re: Chumby Complaints

Duane wrote:

Incidentally, you don't endear yourself to anyone by calling them "sheeple" simply because they make different choices than you do.  And personally, I'm not too keen on your characterization of us as being similar to Microsoft - I can't think of *any* way in which we behave like them.

I'm not trying to endear myself to your consumers (that's your job), only making them realize why the status quo doesn't have to be that way.  Instead of blindly accepting that a service needs to be ad supported when it could just as easily be made in a manner that did not require ads nor a monthly fee.  To me it's not even the issue of advertising as much as I have with the current method of advertising.  If this issue isn't big enough, apparently I'm not the only person who has deep reservations against the advertising.  Chumby Inc is going to have a hard time coming across as a high quality product with the current manner of advertising.

On the other hand, devices that were hacked to be something their not, I have not heard of consumers complaining about paying for the software previously on the device.

While your current corporate and openness to consumers is the antithesis of Microsoft, I think you're like Microsoft because you have an pseudo operating system bundled with the product, and I don't see how it is in your best interest as a company to keep it that open when it starts affecting your ad revenue stream.  Is Chumby Inc willing to go out of business before it that happens?

Re: Chumby Complaints

jhaluska wrote:

...I don't see how it is in your best interest as a company to keep it that open when it starts affecting your ad revenue stream.  Is Chumby Inc willing to go out of business before it that happens?

Perhaps - in which case, the DRM/Closed world wins another victory, and the Free folks would have eaten their young yet again.

One of the fundamental claims of the Free crowd is that folks can earn income to support themselves by providing a service while keeping the code itself Free.  If you're right, then they're full of crap.

I guess we'll see.

Re: Chumby Complaints

I think I see the problem here.  "jhalusak" does not have the "talent" to make his/her own network for the chumby to servce his own widgets.  He is missing the whole point of the Chumby on this.  Which is the fact, that you can totally replace the OS with the full acceptance of the company making the product.  Try that with the iPhone! 

If you don't like the widget feed and ads on it from Chumby.com widget feed jhaluska, replace it with your own!  If you can't do it yourself, hire someone who can and PAY them to do it for you.

End of story, problem solved!

Re: Chumby Complaints

limbo wrote:

I think I see the problem here.  "jhaluska" does not have the "talent" to make his/her own network for the chumby to service his own widgets.  He is missing the whole point of the Chumby on this.  Which is the fact, that you can totally replace the OS with the full acceptance of the company making the product.  Try that with the iPhone! 

If you don't like the widget feed and ads on it from Chumby.com widget feed jhaluska, replace it with your own!  If you can't do it yourself, hire someone who can and PAY them to do it for you.

So that is what being accused of a lack of talent feels like, cause this is the first time somebody has ever accused me of having a lack of it.  At this point, I lack the experience with ARM processors and embedded Linux, but that was why I bought the Chumby in the first place.  All this other cool stuff that I can already do with it is a bonus.

Limbo, apparently being too lazy to write widget manager, is trying to goad me on with fairly obvious attempt at reverse psychology.  Now if I failed he could hold that above me, while if I succeeded he would get an ad free widget manager, but in the mean time he's lost the respect I've had for him.

Re: Chumby Complaints

Duane wrote:

Perhaps - in which case, the DRM/Closed world wins another victory, and the Free folks would have eaten their young yet again.

One of the fundamental claims of the Free crowd is that folks can earn income to support themselves by providing a service while keeping the code itself Free.  If you're right, then they're full of crap.

I also hope that a more open mentality is feasible.  The reason I'm voicing my opinion as loud as I am is because I feel that ads could be done better which I hope as a whole would help Chumby Inc succeed.  Personally, I've always liked ID Software's mentality on releasing the code that is no longer a threat to their livelihood, as it seems to be a good compromise between an open and closed software.

Re: Chumby Complaints

Not wanting to fan the flames here, but I think this thread started with good points but has been lost with the constant reiteration of one point (ads).

jhaluska, your initial post was an excellent one, and I'm sure that Chumby valued those opinions, but this thread has gone a bit off track and should probably end.

My Chumby is due to arrive this week, and once I receive it, I will evaluate it like I do any other personal purchase.  If I don't like it, I will follow the return policy.  If I do like it, and I find issues, I will make my constructive criticisms known in this forum as well, just like jhaluska had originally. 

The original listing of issues presented was good, but let's not debase this post any farther than it has gone already. 

PS Please do not feel obligated to respond or critique my post, as I will not respond any further either.

Re: Chumby Complaints

I agree, the post has somewhat been derailed and become a tinderbox for a flame war.

Getting back to the touch screen, I'm not sure the touch screen is as bad as I thought, it may be the widget app locks up and you don't know if it is the touch screen or the app that stopped responding.  If you wanted to know, the active widget was an advertisement, as I like the novelty of playing full motion video on the Chumby.

Re: Chumby Complaints

One way to determine if the issue is the touchscreen not seeing touches is to follow the instructions here to enable the touchclick functionality.