Topic: Any Chance change to different clock

Any chance the Stub will change to a different clock while we wait -

I understand the nerd quality of the Star Trek clock, but it is unreadable across the room.

Any clock would be better.

Re: Any Chance change to different clock

We have to obtain the rights to use the other widgets. The stub service is a placeholder until more widgets can be made available.

Your patience is appreciated.

Tar, feathers, congress. Some assembly required.

Re: Any Chance change to different clock

What about the option to switch to the default (offline) clock?

Re: Any Chance change to different clock

You could put it in the night mode clock, which simply displays the time white-on-black.  Turn up the night-mode brightness if you'd like.  Of course if you actually use night mode, that might be somewhat more problematic tongue

5 (edited by nathanm 2013-04-08 17:13:15)

Re: Any Chance change to different clock

BoloMKXXVIII wrote:

We have to obtain the rights to use the other widgets. The stub service is a placeholder until more widgets can be made available.

Your patience is appreciated.

Your point is kind of made invalid when you can see that the current stub clock was made by another author. (Edit: I don't actually know this, but it doesn't appear on the Sony Dash website under Chumby Industries' profile) Also, Chumby Industries made a lot of other clocks, like this, this, this, this, this, this, and this. Personally, if the clock were to change, my vote would be for the first one or the fourth one. The second and third one look nice, though, however useless they may be for general readability and I also like the sixth one.

EDIT: I asked my family this question and the general consensus is that the 6th one is good, however reading the comments the sun/moon times may need to be adjusted. The problem with the fourth one is that the time is the smallest thing shown.

Re: Any Chance change to different clock

BoloMKXXVIII wrote:

We have to obtain the rights to use the other widgets. The stub service is a placeholder until more widgets can be made available.

Your patience is appreciated.

I know that was said, but it seems to me the widget authors didn't write widgets and give them to the chumby company, nor did they authorize the Chumby company to sell their widgets.

They wrote them and gave them away to the users. The chumby company, and now Blue Octy LLC were just a conduit to give them to their ultimate recipients. At no charge.

I can't imagine *any* past widget author complaining about someone using their intellectual property for free, they wrote it free, didn't they?   

Has any widget author complained about that?  Or maybe it was just one?

I think you are barking up the wrong tree keeping us users from using those widgets which we have been able to use all these years at no cost, all because of intellectual property issues. 

Silly.

Re: Any Chance change to different clock

I am just a moderator. I am not running the servers nor is it my butt that is on the line for any legal action. I can only tell you what I have read before.

Nathanm,

Your family did not even agree on which one they liked the best. Yes, they did come to a consensus after discussing it, but it is easy to do when everyone is in the same room. Consider how many people are currently using Chumbys. I do not know all the reasons that went into selecting the current clock, but Duane doesn't do anything without thinking it through. In time we will have more options.  Again I ask for patience.

Tar, feathers, congress. Some assembly required.

8 (edited by nathanm 2013-04-08 17:11:39)

Re: Any Chance change to different clock

BoloMKXXVIII wrote:

I am just a moderator. I am not running the servers nor is it my butt that is on the line for any legal action. I can only tell you what I have read before.

Nathanm,

Your family did not even agree on which one they liked the best. Yes, they did come to a consensus after discussing it, but it is easy to do when everyone is in the same room. Consider how many people are currently using Chumbys. I do not know all the reasons that went into selecting the current clock, but Duane doesn't do anything without thinking it through. In time we will have more options.  Again I ask for patience.

Personally, I don't mind the current clock. Rthib, however, may have a different arrangement where they need to see the clock full screen and need the night mode. Is there support for polls on the forum? If so, maybe we could put this up to a vote whether to keep the clock the same or change it to one of the ones mentioned below. Rthib, the problem with the offline clock is that unless you don't need alarms, night mode, or internet radio, and want to see a big "TAP TO CONNECT TO NETWORK" across the bottom, it probably isn't the clock for you. Besides, the first one I linked is similar with a different font. Bolo, about the legal problems, what legal issues could possibly happen from using your own widgets that you wrote on your own device? I know you don't run the servers, but hypothetically there would be no issue.

Re: Any Chance change to different clock

The clock currently being served by the stub server was not authored by Chumby, it was authored by me personally, which is why I know it's completely clear of any possible intellectual property considerations.

The legal relationships are as follows - Chumby had explicit revocable rights from the authors to redistribute the widgets to device owners, and device owners have rights from Chumby to utilize the Chumby Service, including the right to use the widgets from the authors as long as the authors continued to grant the corresponding distribution rights to Chumby.

Users do not have any direct agreement with the widget authors - any rights they have is only *through* the terms of service with Chumby (now Blue Octy).  It is certainly the case that they did not grant any redistribution rights to users, so anyone other than Chumby distributing these widgets without their authors' permissions would be infringing on their copyrights.  this is black-letter copyright law, at least in the United States.

There is nothing preventing users from seeking other arrangements with the widget authors, including the right to redistribute them.

It might indeed be the case that authors may not mind the use of their widgets in other contexts - but it seems at *least* polite to ask first, notwithstanding any possible legal issues.

Re: Any Chance change to different clock

BoloMKXXVIII wrote:

Duane doesn't do anything without thinking it through. In time we will have more options.  Again I ask for patience.

If you have stuck around this long and are reading the forums, then you know the wonderful, hard and yes thankless job (to some!)  Duane has done.

I know we will have a wonderful service eventually. My hats off to Duane and everyone else on this forum working to support the new service.

Larry

Re: Any Chance change to different clock

Duane wrote:

The clock currently being served by the stub server was not authored by Chumby, it was authored by me personally, which is why I know it's completely clear of any possible intellectual property considerations.

The legal relationships are as follows - Chumby had explicit revocable rights from the authors to redistribute the widgets to device owners, and device owners have rights from Chumby to utilize the Chumby Service, including the right to use the widgets from the authors as long as the authors continued to grant the corresponding distribution rights to Chumby.

Users do not have any direct agreement with the widget authors - any rights they have is only *through* the terms of service with Chumby (now Blue Octy).  It is certainly the case that they did not grant any redistribution rights to users, so anyone other than Chumby distributing these widgets without their authors' permissions would be infringing on their copyrights.  this is black-letter copyright law, at least in the United States.

There is nothing preventing users from seeking other arrangements with the widget authors, including the right to redistribute them.

It might indeed be the case that authors may not mind the use of their widgets in other contexts - but it seems at *least* polite to ask first, notwithstanding any possible legal issues.

I don't disagree that it would be polite to ask first.

However any widget author that wanted their widget to be kept from the chumby users in the field had only to avoid uploading it to chumby.  Since they did that I doubt seriously any would have a problem with someone who enjoyed it using their work.  That's why they did the work, after all.

Why not post a message to widget authors, saying something like:

To past widget authors:
Chumby Inc. is no more, but there are many users in the field.  The chumby servers have been maintained by volunteers for some time. 

If you wrote any widgets and uploaded them to chumby for the free use of those users we assume unless we hear otherwise by April 30, 2013 that you have no objections to your widgets being served up to chumby owners again at no cost, like they were in the past and like we believe was always your intention.

You could email that message as well.  If anyone squawks take their IP down.

If no one squawks, that is somewhat defensible, especially since there is nothing going on there that didn't go on for literally years in the past and clearly each of those widget authors was OK with it.   Did they agree to any TOS when they uploaded years ago?

Re: Any Chance change to different clock

The plan is to restore the service with the same ability that authors always had, which was to remove their widgets at any time.

There is another thread somewhere discussing an ability I want to add, which for the author to add any *additional* rights, such as granting the right of redistribution, availability of source code, etc.

Re: Any Chance change to different clock

Duane wrote:

The plan is to restore the service with the same ability that authors always had, which was to remove their widgets at any time.

There is another thread somewhere discussing an ability I want to add, which for the author to add any *additional* rights, such as granting the right of redistribution, availability of source code, etc.

Maybe I'm way out in left field, but who's to say that the way an author removes a widget is now to e-mail "the powers that be"?  Did the previous TOS explicitly state that the method to remove widgets had to be the fancy UI they were originally using?

Linux Guy - Occasional Chumby Hacker

Re: Any Chance change to different clock

All please remember that this static clock is temporary so that Duane can put his efforts into the bigger picture. This is not a democracy, it's a struggling startup company with no money. Any static clock would become boring after a while. Hopefully soon we'll be able to have cycling clocks and widgets again.

Also please understand that using people's widgets is not just some technical or legal problem. I think it's more an ethical thing that a creative person should be able to control how their creations are used. Re-using somebody's widget is no different than re-using a photo or a story someone wrote. I was mortified a couple of years ago when all my "personal" pictures from Picasa showed up on Spokeo. I certainly didn't want my pictures used like that. A widget could be just as personal a thing as a picture of my mother in her yard.

I've never created a widget, so I'm just guessing about their point of view. But considering that Duane has authored hundreds of them, I think he's a valid spokesman for widget authors, and we should respect his opinion.

Most of all, as BoloMKXXVIII said, remember the stub server is just a "place holder" and it's content is secondary to making Chumbys work again.

15 (edited by Steevo 2013-04-08 21:35:36)

Re: Any Chance change to different clock

Duane wrote:

The plan is to restore the service with the same ability that authors always had, which was to remove their widgets at any time.

And though that might be "nice", it also might be something for which there is no demand whatsoever. Did anyone consider that?  Maybe no one cares?

I've been involved in IT projects where the developer(s) were busily working to add functionality that there was just no need for.

The company was going broke with them trying to implement stuff for which there was no demand.
We could get it out the door like it was and no problems at all. 
Before I got there and said "don't add any more features, this has to ship". 

I always caution everyone about this.  Sometimes people who are very familiar with the project don't understand where the essential stops and the "wouldn't that be nice" starts.

16 (edited by bobsz 2013-04-09 01:32:04)

Re: Any Chance change to different clock

Duane bought the rights to the company with his own money and now runs it for zero pay. He's the only one who can see the big picture of what's really going on. This topic started just about the space clock and now has turned into Duane having to defend his management plans. Let's give the guy a chance. Many devices have just been abandoned by big companies. Blue Octy's just trying to keep something like that from happening to us, as imperfect a plan as we all may have to deal with.

Maybe this heavy conversation should be moved to a more prominent topic like "Possible Futures." For here, I'm still waiting to hear if nathanm's family decides we should go with Critter Clock (which would really drive us crazy) or something I'd like, like the blue neon bar clock. I never quite got the hang of that "new" fraction clock. So nathanm please keep us posted on your family votes. I'm sure that'll help us decide this critical issue.

17 (edited by Joan Jett 2013-04-10 04:12:39)

Re: Any Chance change to different clock

bobsz wrote:

  (snip) .....please keep us posted on your family votes. I'm sure that'll help us decide this critical issue.

Heh, Like!

Brian, #1 Joan Jett Fan

Re: Any Chance change to different clock

I'll be the first to say that I screwed up.

I was trying to help create a friendly discussion with people deciding what clock they wanted, whether to edit the current Trek clock or to change it to one of the others Chumby Industries made, etc.

Instead, I inadvertently created a horrible discussion based on figuring out Duane's morals and Chumby's legal issues. It also made me look like a complete jerk who doesn't give a care about Duane or the great efforts he has made so far. And I brought my family into a completely irrelevant discussion.

In conclusion, oops.

Re: Any Chance change to different clock

Eh, don't worry, I'm not upset in any way.

I'm quite sympathetic to the desire to have more widgets available, and I'm working toward making that happen.

Re: Any Chance change to different clock

Duane wrote:

Eh, don't worry, I'm not upset in any way.

I'm quite sympathetic to the desire to have more widgets available, and I'm working toward making that happen.

Duane, we know, you've been working like a dog on this for a long time.  Thanks!

I was just suggesting that it might not be all that necessary to do it all just *so*.  Close would be maybe more than good enough.  At least for now.

Remember when Chumby was being evangelized by Bunnie Huang?  He spent an inordinate amount of time (it seemed to me) talking about making little tassles, fobs to hang off your beanbag chumby.  Purely decorative.

I just didn't get any of that, and I still don't think any of that was *necessary*.  They could sell chumby just as well (or poorly) with or without any of that.  But they did a lot of that stuff.

Re: Any Chance change to different clock

rthib wrote:

I understand the nerd quality of the Star Trek clock, but it is unreadable across the room.

Any clock would be better.

And to get this discussion back to one on the relative merits of different clocks:
Really? How big is your room?
I would have said that of the many, many clocks that used to be available, the Star Trek one was one of the more readable - the actual time is pretty big (on many of the clocks it was really just a small addendum to something else that took up the majority of the screen) and it's displayed in a clear contrast.
Is the problem that you can't read the time, or the other, smaller details? Which clock did you use previously?

Re: Any Chance change to different clock

steelpaw wrote:
rthib wrote:

I understand the nerd quality of the Star Trek clock, but it is unreadable across the room.

Any clock would be better.

And to get this discussion back to one on the relative merits of different clocks:
Really? How big is your room?
I would have said that of the many, many clocks that used to be available, the Star Trek one was one of the more readable - the actual time is pretty big (on many of the clocks it was really just a small addendum to something else that took up the majority of the screen) and it's displayed in a clear contrast.
Is the problem that you can't read the time, or the other, smaller details? Which clock did you use previously?

Thanks for getting this discussion back on track. In my personal opinion, the only clock that is more readable is this one and even then, we lose the merits of the date and calendar, the contrast, and the seconds. I also wonder about the room. No offense meant, but if rthib has vision problems, that's okay, but otherwise I can clearly see the time from 10+ feet away on the current clock. The analog clocks I linked have good contrast, but the problem is that they cannot be read from across the room. If you have a 3.5 inch display and can't see it, I'd recommend getting a Chumby with an 8 inch screen (This I8 has the superior Chumby 8 firmware preinstalled, as well as being $27 with 15 hours left).

Re: Any Chance change to different clock

Joan Jett wrote:
bobsz wrote:

  (snip) .....please keep us posted on your family votes. I'm sure that'll help us decide this critical issue.

Heh, Like!

Hi all --

Let me mark my own comment here as generally unhelpful and non-pertinent to the discussion. Sorry!

Brian, #1 Joan Jett Fan

24 (edited by rthib 2013-04-12 07:19:27)

Re: Any Chance change to different clock

steelpaw wrote:
rthib wrote:

I understand the nerd quality of the Star Trek clock, but it is unreadable across the room.

Any clock would be better.

And to get this discussion back to one on the relative merits of different clocks:
Really? How big is your room?
I would have said that of the many, many clocks that used to be available, the Star Trek one was one of the more readable - the actual time is pretty big (on many of the clocks it was really just a small addendum to something else that took up the majority of the screen) and it's displayed in a clear contrast.
Is the problem that you can't read the time, or the other, smaller details? Which clock did you use previously?

It is mostly a font issue.
Across a decent sized family room for folks with not perfect eyesite - it is hard to distinguish 6 from 8.
Had more than a few folks comment on that.

Had my family vote on also and sun/moon clock was also their favorite.

Understand the issue, thus the reason I asked nicely.
Since the offline clock was there already, wondered how difficult it would be to have it as an option.

Re: Any Chance change to different clock

rthib wrote:

It is mostly a font issue.
Across a decent sized family room for folks with not perfect eyesite - it is hard to distinguish 6 from 8.

Yes, I can see your point. Whilst the numbers are quite big, they are a bit elongated. Conveniently, it just happens to be 8.06 am while I am writing this. If I back up the hallway a bit to get further away from my lounge room Chumby (my house is quite small), the numbers do start to resemble each other.