Topic: Chumby Complaints

I've been watching and waiting for the Chumby since I saw it in Popular Mechanics.  But honestly, I feel like it has been a big disappointment.

Here are my complaints in the order of what I find most annoying first.
   - Touchscreen.  Did you even test this before deciding to use it?  It is so unresponsive.  I have to press harder than I'd like on an LCD screen.  It has to be the worst touch screen I've used in the last decade.  It is so bad that I feel like all the apps should be designed not to depend on it.  Did you put cushions on the back of the Chumby because people were throwing it against the wall because of the touchscreen?  But on the bright side it puts off enough heat to double as a small space heater!
   - Commercials.  I did not pay $180 to see commercials on my Chumby.  I wouldn't mind the advertising on the web page, not on my device.  I feel like you should be paying me to see any of these advertisements.  Either drop the price of the device, or get rid of the advertising.
   - Alarm Clock.  I bought this sucker to be an internet radio streaming alarm clock.  Thats the ONLY reason I bought it.  Instead I have a $180 device that is less functional in that area than a $15 alarm clock.  Can't we at least get a weekend mode.  This area has SO much potential but this was such a huge disappointment.
   - Dependency on Chumby.com to manage widgets.  Why can't we download them and log onto our Chumby instead of going through the web page?
   - Boot up time.  I timed it yesterday and it was like 54 seconds from pressing the power button to the first widget.  This just seems excessive for a device which knows most of its hardware.  It should at least be faster than desktops...right?
   - Widget Management.  Channels and a strict duration seems so primitive.  Can't we have channels based off the time of the day, a playlist, or  more probabilistic approach to widget managements.  Different channels based off the time of the day?  Have it NOT switch to another widget for a set amount of time after I've clicked on a widget.  How about the ability to rotate through the widgets quickly with the accelerometer instead of the going through the menu? (Yeah I know you wouldn't have the accelerometer for the widgets but sometimes I want to know the weather and don't want to have to wait 5 minutes to show up).
   - No Sleep Mode.  I want a hackable alarm clock, can we have it turn off the power at some set time each night/day so it isn't sucking power for no reason?
   - Video Sync Issues.  A lot of the videos/advertisements get out of sync in audio/video.

Now, I know I'm an early adopter and I expected some of these issues and I realize most of these issues have been noted before and most can be resolved with software fixes.  But the cumulative effect of all of them makes this Chumby feels like a slow overhyped Microsoft product where I was foolish to pay money to be a prototype tester and it didn't have any of the features that were promised.  I haven't been excited to use the device, and I do not have a warm fuzzy feeling for it.

Based off my conversations in #chumby, I know these sentiments aren't just shared by myself.  Sure the device can do a lot of things, but I only want it to do a few things better than a PC can.

What I would like Chumby to do is fix the touch screen and offer current early adopters a fix, and release more software fixes more often.

2 (edited by mfreeman451 2007-11-05 10:17:02)

Re: Chumby Complaints

I agree 100% with everything this person wrote. I have the same complaints, verbatim. I am extremely disappointed I spent 179$ on this thing.

Everything I bought the Chumby for, I found out I cannot do. My girlfriend is urging me to send it back, anyone know what the return policy is?

Chumby staff, if you are listening, it's time to step up to the plate. If you want some more feedback, contact me.

Re: Chumby Complaints

I'm replying to this thread again because I don't feel like I vented enough.

I feel so burned by Chumby. I have so much regret after purchasing this it is sickening.

Re: Chumby Complaints

Really sorry you feel this way about your chumby.  Just to be clear upfront, provided the conditions are met in our returns policy, you may be able to return your chumby and get a refund: http://www.chumby.com/help/warranty_returns

Of course I hope you won't opt to do this.  Here's the challenge from our perspective.  On the one hand, a *very* large group of people wants their chumby *now* and they understand that we're not open to the general public and why this is the case, i.e., because the chumby is still in a pretty intense development phase when lots of features and functionality are going to be added by the end of the year and that will then get pushed to their device.  These people are truly "Insiders" because they want to be along for the ride right now, and want an earlier look, well before the general public, because they can give us feedback that will actually impact our reasonably near-term product direction.  They realize that they're not getting a "complete" product but rather one that is becoming dramatically more "complete" over the next couple of months.  Perhaps we haven't communicated this effectively.

On the other hand, there is a presumably even much larger group of people who want the chumby to be more fully-formed before they purchase it -- every feature they imagined it might have, and every aspect working as it should.  This is basis upon which pretty much every consumer electronics product is sold right now -- not that these products typically meet this standard of delivering against expectations, but that's the model.  You buy something off the shelf and it is what it is.  You're either happy with it or disappointed with it.  If you're disappointed with it, it's not going to get any better.  If you're happy with it, you may not be as happy with it next year, when all the newer and better ones come out.

Chumby is doing things a bit differently.  If you buy a chumby today as an Insider, it's not going to do everything it ultimately will do, but it does a lot.  I hope early buyers agree that it's worth $179.95 for what it does, and it sounds like almost every one of our Insiders agrees -- the feedback to us and on blogs is strongly positive.  However, unlike most other consumer electronic products that I'm aware of, the chumby is only going to get better.  We are going to continue to upgrade all chumbys, including those in the field, with automatic, over-the-air software updates that add substantial additional functionality.  In the next days we are going to push out an update that makes chumby's operation more robust; and within the next month or so, you can expect to start receiving updates of enhanced functionality.  A lot of this improvement is a direct response to what we've learned from real people buying real chumbys.  We do pay close attention to this Forum and we also read blog posts that people write about their chumby experiences.  We treasure every comment and every communication with our Customer Service group.  We love getting the positive feedback, but the negative feedback is what makes the chumby better -- we are listening and doing what we can with this constructive criticism to address it in our product roadmap.  I hope that many of will be delighted to see your very own chumby change and improve in direct response to this feedback.

So, if someone based upon first impressions was disappointed, fair enough -- if they follow the returns policy, they can send their chumby back to us.  Hopefully we'll get another chance in a couple of months.  Fortunately the line is pretty deep of people who want to get a chumby and be on the Inside now and watch this unfold and participate in the dialog.  We're inventing a new product category here: a chumby is not a PC, not a cellphone, not an MP3 player.  We're *not* ready for the general public yet, and we're trying to explain this to people who really shouldn't buy a chumby now and to the mainstream Press, because we're not ready to have them evaluate us yet.  It's just the beginning.

I will promise that chumbys absolutely will keep getting better and that you will like your chumby even more over the next weeks, months, years.  That's the new model we're creating.  If you trust this vision and want to be an Insider to it, you're getting the chance to do so.  Anyone who'd rather wait, that's fine too.

Re: Chumby Complaints

Thanks for the reply Steve.

I won't speak for jhaluska, but I do appreciate having been given the chance to be an insider and although I may have vented my frustrations earlier on some of the forums, I think I might be better served by trying to channel those frustrations into something positive and go at it from a different approach, which maybe by now you might be aware of (check out the chumby user group).

I guess I had delusions of grandeur at first and really expected this thing to be a lot of things that it was not, but like you said hopefully things will change down the road.

I look forward to watching this product evolve and hopefully contributing in my own ways when possible.

.m

Re: Chumby Complaints

I love this product, issues and all.

In the end Chumby has filled a spot in my life that he himself made. Before I got him I expected that he could do A, B and C. After having him for a few weeks I have learned that A works great, B works but needs an upgrade and C is broken and in need of some real help. With that said, I am happy to be on the ride as Chumby grows and evolves. This is one of the few products that I own that I know other people, even the company, is still learning about and working om its growth. I hope that enough people believe in Chumby as much as Chumby believes in the users so that his full potential can be reached.

God does not care about our mathematical difficulties; He integrates empirically.  ~Albert Einstein

7 (edited by jhaluska 2007-11-05 21:45:26)

Re: Chumby Complaints

Despite my rant, I am not planning on returning the device.  I'm keeping it for the single fact that I'd be willing to pay $180 to support a company that encourages people hacking their hardware.  By venting some my frustrations, I hope they will be addressed and resolved in future version of the software and hardware.  The Chumby represents a different kind of product development that I'm not used to.  I expect a lot from Chumby, and while I do not believe it is there yet, I just want to make sure it stays on it's path to fulfill it's potential.

8 (edited by dwatson 2007-11-06 17:59:50)

Re: Chumby Complaints

I just have to echo the alarm clock sentiment. To me, that is the core functionality of this device and the current alarm clock is terrible in it. If it just had the functionality of being able to tell it what days to be on and off, it would be fine for me. Unfortunately, I'm still using my old alarm clock that is on its last leg and needs to have the timezone changed on it 4 times a year to handle the daylight saving change simply because it has this basic functionality that the chumby doesn't have.

I see a lot of complaints about the touchscreen, but surprisingly I don't have any problems with it. I watched my wife try to navigate it and she was having a heck of a time. I think I'm noticing something that I'm doing that many people may not be doing. I realize this is a lightweight device and simply pushing on the touch screen doesn't cut it. You need to hold the chumby in place when touching the screen. If you aren't doing that, then you are going to have terrible results with it.

Re: Chumby Complaints

That is something I've noticed as well.  The touch screen is so insensitive that I have to hold it because the device is so light.  An optional weight at the bottom would help this out a lot and I might try to hack something out on this.  Also, my wife's fingers have a better time navigating it than I do, but I seem to have achieved better results through another calibration run.  I do agree completely on the alarm clock.  I want to put this device upstairs where I don't have any internet devices yet but it's not ready yet.  I do, however, believe that it will be there and within a couple of months.

I run a lot of bleeding edge software so I am comfortable with this.  I think it's pretty cool that this device is encouraging me to learn flash. smile

Rusty

10 (edited by Steve Tomlin 2007-11-07 22:20:27)

Re: Chumby Complaints

Enhanced alarm clock functionality is a major focus for us right now and you will see significant improvements in this area shortly.

Re: Chumby Complaints

My only complaint is that I can't order one of these quickly enough!  How does one get to be an insider?

Re: Chumby Complaints

I just got my email saying I could log in to get my chumby.  The login failed, so I checked the forum to see if there were a message there, and then saw this:

jhaluska wrote:

- Commercials.  I did not pay $180 to see commercials on my Chumby.

What form do the commercials take?  When I saw this on the description page:

http://www.chumby.com/story wrote:

Access to the Chumby Network is FREE. No subscriptions to pay, no plans to sign up for. It's paid for by Chumby Industries and by sponsor companies who will be sending you widgets such as music, games, movie previews, customized alarm clocks, and special offers for products and prizes

I had assumed that business would sponsor certain widgets, or produce their own branded widgets.  Getting unsolicited ads is a completely different matter, a deal-breaker for me.  There's no way I'm putting a spam-delivery device in my bedroom, though I'll put up with ad-supported services elsewhere.

Re: Chumby Complaints

I'll answer my own question: http://forum.chumby.com/viewtopic.php?id=706

I have to say, I think it could be a lot clearer on the front web pages that the device will be slinging ads at you whether you want it or not, instead of burying it in the terms of service.  Probably not everyone reacts as negatively as I do to ads by surprise.  But I spent, what, two months looking over the web site, looking at technical stuff, etc, etc, and never got a single clear statement saying this would be supported by compulsory ads, though in retrospect I was doubtless being naive.

Re: Chumby Complaints

I dunno, to me it seemed fairly obvious that the content, while free, could have some strings attached.  In this day & age, 'free' web services usually imply that there is some advertising involved.  And frankly, I love that business model.

The fact that the company was so emphatic about the content being free sorta drove that home further.

I don't see the point in complaining about advertising until some real advertising pops up.  Even then, as long as some restraint is shown, and the ads are tasteful & well-targeted, I'll be okay with it.

Chumby birthdate: 10/11/07

Re: Chumby Complaints

In a parallel universe (where Spock has a goatee), there's a nearly identical thread to this one, except where people are wondering why chumby requires a mandatory subscription fee, and asking us why hadn't we thought about making it completely free by making it ad sponsored or something.

There's also a Gaggle Code project over there to replace our software in order to break the tyranny of the subscription (yes, in that universe, it's called Gaggle, not Google).

Re: Chumby Complaints

Duane wrote:

and asking us why hadn't we thought about making it completely free by making it ad sponsored or something.

Looking at ads is a cost — this isn't free but subsidized, in a way I consider a cost to me, over and above the cost of the hardware.  Obviously you guys have to come up with a revinue stream from this thing, and I'm not going to tell you what the best way to do that is.  However, I have to say I feel slightly mislead about this, and wish it were immediately clear from the get-go (i.e., not in a somewhat vague "story" page or deep in a sea of TOS legalism) that ads are a non-optional part of the widget stream.  Maybe I'm just too ignorant about how to interpret marketing copy, but neither am I the first person surprised about the ads.

Re: Chumby Complaints

wm.annis wrote:

What form do the commercials take?

Currently the commercials are videos for some Ad Council.  They start out as a freeze frame of the picture with a play button in the middle.  It does not play till you hit the play button.  I find it disgusting, like looking at my watch and expecting to see the time and instead see an advertisement to tell me I shouldn't be driving drunk.  Thanks watch...

Now, a lot of people are defending Chumby for the commercials and think Chumby Inc is providing some great free service that I just happened to pay $180 to join and deserves to be supported by Ads.   They consider it the same as Google providing their search feature.  I don't.  I see it like buying a computer and saying you have to watch an Ad every time you switch between applications.

Let me look at the rest of my hardware I've bought that does not have this problem:
- Router: Nope
- Watch: Nope
- Alarm Clock: Nope
- Ipod: Nope
- Car: Nope

Now I'll list all the hardware that has succeeded with an ad based approach:

...Yeah I couldn't think of anything.  I remember a lot of ad provided services that have failed miserably.

Now, I was explained Chumby's business model and was told that the hardware was basically being sold at cost.  Which means they can't make money like other companies, which is wise since their entire system is open for anybody to duplicate and compete with them on the hardware front.

Now, since I'm such a nice guy I'll let Chumby Inc know how they can try to put ads on Chumby without annoying me and a lot of other users.

- Have people buy out of ads
OR
- Only have ads on the website
OR
- Only have ads for widgets created by Chumby Inc.
OR
- Put tiny logos of the ads on the Widgets themselves.  It would be better if the widgets were 'Sponsored' by companies.
AND/OR
- Only display an ads 1 time before allowing the person to use the widget indefinitely ad free.

On the plus side, it is possible to hack the Chumby to have run apps that aren't dependent on Chumby and thus won't have ads.  I think this option is going to become very popular.

Re: Chumby Complaints

We have spent a lot of time, and research dollars, trying to figure out the best way to provide the Chumby Network service in a way that will be most supported by the the most people -- while still, because of the open nature of the chumby device and with a little hacking, allowing people to opt out of our approach and do something else with their device if they'd rather not tune into the Chumby Network.  After listening to lots of people, particularly those in our college-aged and immediately post-college-aged primary target markets, we heard overwhelming support for free service...yes, with content sponsorships and ad support.    Most people don't have extra money and want extra subscriptions.  We recognize that this won't please everyone, just most people.  We also chose to keep things simple with one business offering, rather than choices to opt-in or opt-out, subscribe or get free with sponsored content (frankly we couldn't find any so-called "freemium" models -- limited service for free, better service for pay -- that really worked).  The whole Chumby idea is hard enough to explain to people without creating flavors of the business model, though we don't rule out such an idea in the future.  Frankly, we'd love to take the public radio model and let everyone use their chumby and just every now and then pay us what they think the service is worth to them -- but I'm afraid we're more than a little skeptical that this type of approach would work.  Maybe if it catches on from music artists selling their albums this way...

There are plenty of devices that use a similar model to the one we've adopted, frankly some pretty popular ones like televisions and radios (yes, I know that now you can choose to pay to watch only ad-free channels -- though of course that's not how these media started when they were establishing their popular awareness and value).  And of course the very clock radio that might be invited into someone's bedroom.  In fact I struggle to think of too many mainstream media (not devices, it's media that we're talking about -- none of the devices that are cited above consumes bandwidth) that *doesn't* contain sponsored content or ads.  Magazines, TV, radio, newspapers, even movies.  I hear that ads are coming to your cellphone, maybe you've already received one on yours -- some people are quite excited about this model if it allows them to make free phone calls, i.e., bandwidth in return for ads.  Sound familiar?

Note that our license allows anyone to create an alternative programming source to which you can tune your chumby and, as Duane noted, that's already happening.  That's the free market for you -- and more power to it.  The only thing we ask in our license is that, if such services are propagated, the Chumby Network that permits these chumby devices to, essentially, be subsidized not be disadvantaged in access.  Here's the opening language from our Agreement with respect to people modifying their chumby devices:

"What this Agreement is:

Under this Agreement, as set out below, Chumby grants you a license to use the Chumby SDK and Chumby HDK to hack your Chumby Device. In return, we ask that you: keep the Chumby Service on an even playing field with any other service you want to point your Chumby Device to..."

In other words, if you don't like how we're doing this, create or support alternative choices.

I hear the concern that perhaps we haven't adequately explained the business proposition sufficiently upfront.  We certainly don't want anyone feeling surprised or cheated so, based upon this feedback, I'll make sure that we take a harder look at the messages and language on our site.

Re: Chumby Complaints

I do have to admit for an open device, Chumby Inc's business plan is about as good as it could be.

But I think Chumby Inc is overvaluing the service it is providing.  The majority of the content will be user created, and the majority of the bandwidth for the widgets isn't pulled from Chumby Inc.  (or doesn't have to be).  Even the widget management doesn't need to go through chumby.com, as it could just as easily communicate directly to the Chumby itself.  Basically Chumby Inc artificially created a dependency on Chumby.com when one isn't needed just to justify advertising.  Personally I do not see Chumby Inc as any more of a content provider than I see Dell as one.  The only bandwidth and service that I see having to be pulled from Chumby Inc is for the firmware updates.  But with the inclusion of BT even that may be a minor cost as each user is footing some of that bandwidth bill for them.

Steve Tomlin wrote:

In other words, if you don't like how we're doing this, create or support alternative choices.

I don't and I am.  But I'm conflicted because I fear this will could be the downfall of Chumby Inc, when an alternative ad free choice becomes available as it will leave Chumby Inc without a revenue stream.  I'm hope that at that point you could raise prices on the hardware to make up for it.  On the plus side, I also underestimate how incredibly lazy people are.

Steve Tomlin wrote:

I hear the concern that perhaps we haven't adequately explained the business proposition sufficiently upfront.  We certainly don't want anyone feeling surprised or cheated so, based upon this feedback, I'll make sure that we take a harder look at the messages and language on our site.

That sums up how I felt: surprised and cheated.  It $180 is a lot of money to find out you've been duped into buying a mini billboard that any advertising at all could be shown on the screen at any time.  The only saving grace is that it can be hacked to not have ads.

Re: Chumby Complaints

Vis-a-vis possible alternative services and the damage they might do to us, we'll take our chances.  We're just getting rolling and we think we can do a pretty good job at this :^)   In any event, I suppose the market will ultimately decide the value of the service we're providing.  I think when people realize they're getting a streaming Internet radio + a digital picture frame linked to all the top photo sharing services + a clock radio + a "widget machine" loaded with great content from their favorite Internet sites and top media companies (heck, just consider the Spike Babelizer widget alone! ;^) + an open Linux computer +++++, then they'll realize that, at $180, fully-delivered, this is a crazy good value.

If you feel cheated -- and I'm truly sorry if you do, definitely not our intent and we have tried to be as clear as we can about what the deal is here -- then, as we've been discussing in this thread, you have a range of alternatives.  Return your chumby if it meets the conditions of our return policy; sell it to someone else (I've heard chumbys are selling for princely sums on eBay); hack it to be more to your liking.

My final comment on this topic is that I would hope that you would wait and actually see what the Chumby Network really offers before you rail against it so fervently -- it just seems like it's the principle of the thing rather than the reality that galls you -- because we haven't really done much other than drop in a few generic public service announcements and some basic chumby tips (because we deliberately don't have much of an instruction manual) in the flow to try to give people the basic idea here.  Believe it or not, what we're actually trying to do is to make the Chumby Network really good and compelling to people, with high production value and interesting content, so they'll want to buy it and will be happy with it and will tell all their friends.  It just wouldn't make good business sense for us to fill everyone's chumby up with a bunch of stuff they hated.

Glad to hear we're both on the same side of not wanting the downfall of Chumby Industries :^)

Re: Chumby Complaints

I just wanted to offer a bit of perspective here.

I'm really interested in *glanceable* information sources. Ways to quickly find out information about the weather.... network status.. email status... time... etc, with just a glance. To that end, I was an early adopter of the Ambient Devices "Ambient Weather Beacon" - a nice looking frosted glass thingy that turned colors based on information that it picked up over what is essentially a pager. It would report weather forecast info by default, but some other free data sources (DOW composite,etc) and some premium sources were available as well. It's really similar to the Ambient Orb found here: http://www.ambientdevices.com/cat/orb/orborder.html

I probably shelled out $130-$150 for this thing several years ago and it's never really been particularly useful. Beautiful, yes, but that's the extent of it.

Well.. I got my Chumby yesterday and I've been thrilled with it. I've got it cycling through weather/local doppler radar/time and I'm finding I really like it. Right now, it does everything that the Ambient device did and more, for just a bit more $$. And it sounds like things can only get better. I'm excited about what smart people might create for the Chumby once they get their hands on one.

So... I'm kinda sad that I shelled out for the weather beacon. It looks pretty in my office, but I don't really get any useful information from it. I was probably a sucker to buy it. Not so with my Chumby. I'm happy with this purchase.

Re: Chumby Complaints

<sarcasm>I am extremely pissed now.
I just realized that if you payed $600 for the Apple iPhone, you still have to pay your phone bill every month.
Shouldn't that be subsidized in the initial cost of the hardware?!?!</sarcasm>

You payed $179 for a piece of hackable hardware with a FREE service attached.
The only issue is an occasional advertising widget that will show up on your Chumby?
Maybe I will cancel all my Google accounts too since they add advertisements with their free services?

Chumby went in the right direction with this, and as far as I can see, this is the best business model they could follow when it comes to the end user.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Re: Chumby Complaints

Ganson wrote:

Maybe I will cancel all my Google accounts too since they add advertisements with their free services?

This is a completely dishonest comparison.  How much I pay for my Gmail: $0.  How much I'd pay for a Chumby: $179 + change. 

Besides, I really have no objection to ads per se.  I'm obviously not the target audience for this thing, and Chumby Inc. need to do what it takes to survive as a business.  No skin off my nose — or theirs if they lose one customer.  What does leave a bad taste in my mouth is that I came to within minutes of shelling out cash for the thing without realizing I'd be getting video commercials delivered on it — an altogether different sort of ad than, say, a branded clock widget.

Fortunately it looks like they're going to do something about this:

I hear the concern that perhaps we haven't adequately explained the business proposition sufficiently upfront.  We certainly don't want anyone feeling surprised or cheated so, based upon this feedback, I'll make sure that we take a harder look at the messages and language on our site.

That leaves me with much warmer feelings about the company, even if I decide to pass on the cute little gizmo for now.

Re: Chumby Complaints

Ganson wrote:

You payed $179 for a piece of hackable hardware with a FREE service attached.

The service is not a free service, it is an ad supported service.  I'm paying with my time in one way or the other.  Google is a different than Chumby since they're advertising is shown concurrently with the information.  I know where not to look when using their services.  Chumby is going to have a much harder time pulling this off because of the size and resolution restrictions of the screen.

Re: Chumby Complaints

wm.annis wrote:

This is a completely dishonest comparison.  How much I pay for my Gmail: $0.  How much I'd pay for a Chumby: $179 + change.

Not to play devils advocate, but you also had to pay for your computer's hardware too.  I think Gmail's delivery of their advertising is better done than Chumby Inc.  They don't surpass my fairly low ad pain threshold.

wm.annis wrote:

That leaves me with much warmer feelings about the company, even if I decide to pass on the cute little gizmo for now.

Chumby Inc feels like part Google and part Microsoft.  It just feels like a bunch of well intentioned and talented engineers very close to the edge of doing evil things.