1 (edited by jonaric 2006-09-05 07:18:47)

Topic: Business Model and autonomy

From what I read about the local flash objects, it seems that the business model of Chumby is to have all content be fed from the website.

Will there be a subscription fee for ....

   * General content from the site
   * Custom uploaded content

?

Will there be a way to "hack" the Chumby to put it in a local mode? Aka, a mode where it will load Flash widgets from a USB thumbdrive? I understand the need for the security model in place (so g'ma won't download some widget that will spy on her network, exploit other computers and/or damage her Chumby), but what about those of us who want to run our own content locally?

With that said, will there be a way to use an alternative content provider? Aka, point my Chumby to my own webserver, and not use Chumby's web service?

I appreciate the ability to talk with the developers--TIA for your reply.

Re: Business Model and autonomy

I am surprised that no developers have responded to my post ... did I hit on a sensative chord? Did I uncover the top-secret business plan of Chumby?

1. Make Chumby's
2. Say they are "open source", and encourage hacking
3. Limit users to use chumby's servers, and not their own
4. Charge $$$ for server access
5. Profit

Is that it? If someone "hacks" a chumby to connect to their own server for content, will you send out the lawyers to get them?

Re: Business Model and autonomy

We're modifying the license based on feedback to clarify a lot of these issues.

You are certainly invited to hack your chumby, and we give all the tools to do so - but don't confuse that with some sort of obligation on our part to support your hacked chumby in any way.

4 (edited by Steve Tomlin 2006-09-09 22:37:34)

Re: Business Model and autonomy

Yes, we'll be posting our new license very soon, hopefully next week.  I think it's pretty clear and very liberal -- should hopefully answer your questions, certainly no "top secret plan" (though maybe I need to think harder to come up with one).  I'll also do a blog post about it so it doesn't get overlooked -- and so hopefully somebody will read my blog smile

st

5 (edited by Steve Tomlin 2007-01-09 11:35:02)

Re: Business Model and autonomy

Well, it took us a lot longer than a week :^O

But here's the link to my blog post describing the new license:

http://chumby.wordpress.com/2007/01/08/ … more-open/

or go directly here to see the license in full:

http://www.chumby.com/developers/developer

6 (edited by flashguru 2007-02-28 14:42:31)

Re: Business Model and autonomy

*** It does't look like there will be a legal way to use the Chumby without paying a recurring fee to Chumby Industries. ***

I read the previous post by jonaric, as well as the Chumby License, and I think he got it right.  The single sentence above seems to be the concise answer.

I was very excited about this device before I realized this.  I naively thought they were going to be content with selling the hardware, and letting us use it freely thereafter.  As a Flash developer, I started to imagine all the possibilities.  Now I realize that there isn't much profit to be made in this type of hardware, and they seek the recurring revenues.  That's a big disappointment, since I really hate paying monthly fees (I even use a prepaid cell-phone service for that reason.)

Maybe they can come up with alternate ways of making money:
Perhaps charge a higher fee for an "unlocked" Cumby that we can load and exchange programs for without making recurring payments for the Chumby Service. 
Or let us pay a one-time lifetime fee for the Chumby Service (similar to the first option.)
Or perhaps stream ads from time to time instead.  These would be targeted ads, since the company already knows our location and channel preferences, and therefore would be quite profitable.

Re: Business Model and autonomy

I'd just like to add that although you may have just realised that the hardware will be sold as close to cost as possible, Chumby Industries has always clearly communicated its intentions regarding the control of the Chumby network. Chumby Industries is a business. They do need to make money somehow and they have always said that it is not going to be on the hardware.

This company is feeling their way through what it means to be an Open Source Company. It is very much an emerging business model so I imagine they are learning and adapting as new issues arise. In this case, it is very hard to articulate ahead of time the "exact" business model they intend to use. They are also aiming to be responsive to both developers and consumers opinions and desires, again something that requires a flexible business model.

All the options you mention have been considered and the most up to date information is contained in
this post...read through the thread to get a gist of the discussion.

Also, the hardware *is* free for you to use. That is the essence of Chumby. They have given you all the specs you need to build your own device that will be free of all Chumby network restrictions. If you choose to buy an authentic Chumby you may have some restrictions, but you also gain security.

Re: Business Model and autonomy

flashguru wrote:

*** It does't look like there will be a legal way to use the Chumby without paying a recurring fee to Chumby Industries. ***

I read the previous post by jonaric, as well as the Chumby License, and I think he got it right.  The single sentence above seems to be the concise answer.

I was very excited about this device before I realized this.  I naively thought they were going to be content with selling the hardware, and letting us use it freely thereafter.  As a Flash developer, I started to imagine all the possibilities.  Now I realize that there isn't much profit to be made in this type of hardware, and they seek the recurring revenues.  That's a big disappointment, since I really hate paying monthly fees (I even use a prepaid cell-phone service for that reason.)

Hopefully Steve Tomlin will pipe in and discuss this - however, please realize you're getting disappointed about something we never said, but rather the unsupported speculation of a third party.

Frankly, the business model is in flux at the moment, and it's pretty apparent that the license is being totally misinterpreted.

I'll leave the rest to Steve.

9 (edited by Steve Tomlin 2007-03-03 13:30:18)

Re: Business Model and autonomy

Hmmm.  I'm a bit puzzled by this thread.  Not sure where the disconnect lies.

Our license is supposed to be clear that you can hack your chumby and point it anywhere you like, not exclusively to our servers.  A user pointing his chumby to his own local area network (or locally-connected storage, like a USB thumbdrive) is specifically called out as an area of total freedom where he absolutely doesn't have to pay Chumby Industries a dime.  Likewise pointing a chumby to any site on the Internet that isn't a "Consumer Content Network," i.e., what Chumby does to make money.  So, for example, pointing to a site that monitors an enterprise's server status or, alternatively, a site that monitors a medical patient's blood pressure.

All we ask is that if you hack your chumby to point to another "Consumer Content Network" on the Internet, i.e., a site that could potentially compete directly with Chumby Industries, that you also enable your modified chumby to still point to Chumby's own Network.  In other words, you absolutely *can* modify your chumby device to point elsewhere on the Internet, *even* to a site potentially competing with ours.  All we ask in this case is that you don't eliminate or disadvantage us in that process. The Chumby Network is in fact how Chumby Industries makes money when we're selling hardware as aggressively as we can.

And, btw, the license hopefully makes it crystal clear that we're not talking about widgets.  Any widgets you create, you own -- full stop.  By posting them on our Network, you simply grant us a license to distribute them -- which is really the point of the Network and I would think presumed by the act of posting them there in the first place.

I don't know whether this clarifies things any more than the actual license was supposed to do, but hopefully gives more context?  In any event, feel free to post further questions/issues or even email me at stomlin@chumby.com if you'd like.  We definitely want developers to be excited about hacking and modifying the chumby and developing and sharing widgets over the Chumby Network.  If we still haven't gotten the license right, in your opinion, please let us know.

Re: Business Model and autonomy

Steve Tomlin wrote:

Hmmm.  I'm a bit puzzled by this thread.  Not sure where the disconnect lies.

My personal thought is in how it has been presented. Try presenting the same information in a variety of formats in order to communicate your message to the greatest number of people. Also, present the explanantion at different levels to suit the primary and secondary audiences of your product. Use a friendly, informal tone. Keep it simple. I know you have worked very hard to create a user-friendly license agreement but that is only the first step (Trust me...I'm doing a PhD in information + communities!).

Steve Tomlin wrote:

a "Consumer Content Network," i.e., what Chumby does to make money.

I don't think people really know what you will do to make money. I'm only speculating myself and I am a keystone user community member. I think the problem lies with this not being clearly communicated and that is when people are forced to make assumptions . Then you are forced to clean up the mess of misconceptions! Always twice as hard as getting the message right in the first place.

To be honest, I still don't quite understand what I am allowed to do or not do as a craft developer. I don't really want to read a license. Many other creative types won't either. As I suggested earlier, a dot point sheet of dos and don'ts for each type of developer would clear things up nicely. Then add a footnote that says: For further details, see our license agreement.

((Also, while I have your ear...what is the verdict on selling plastic parts to developers? Also, is the warranty void if you alter the soft casing but don't do anything more than open the daughterboard case and unplug/replug the chumbilical? Very pertinent questions for craft developers))

Re: Business Model and autonomy

I'm pretty sure that in a separate thread, they said that something like that will be tolerated, but if, persay, you solder in a jumper, that probably violate the warranty.

Re: Business Model and autonomy

zachninme wrote:

I'm pretty sure that in a separate thread, they said that something like that will be tolerated, but if, persay, you solder in a jumper, that probably violate the warranty.

We're discussing this internally - the issue is setting up a system that isn't open to abuse.

Re: Business Model and autonomy

I am more than willing to give you guys and gals the benefit of doubt (or is that Salmon?).
I don’t know yet if the premium services are going to float my boat or if I am going to be satisfied with the community hackability.
But regardless of what I am really going to use, I want to contribute by creating chumby based art and projects.  I also want to make sure that the company survives, so I will probably buy this premium membership too.
Do we have any idea on price yet?  Are we talking ~flickr $20 a year or ~netflix $14.95 a month?
This is hard because we are all hungry for information that may not exist yet.  And you have to be even more terse incase you mention something that may change later.  Tough position.