Topic: what if Chumby Industries were to go away?

This question is effectively a generalization of the questions that I have seen posted regarding the behavior of the Chumby when there is a network or website failure. Please understand that I don't mean to suggest that I think that Chumby Industries will be anything but a wonderful success but given the nature of the industry I feel compelled to ask about the usability of a Chumby device if (heaven forbid), Chumby (and their website) goes away forever. Is the device (and any necessary software for both the client and server) sufficiently open (available and covered by a open source license) such that someone else could fill the void or is this just a risk that one takes with this device?

Re: what if Chumby Industries were to go away?

Several people have done complete replacements of the firmware using the tools that are freely available.  The schematics and CAD files for the hardware are also available on the site.

The only core software that is not Open is the Adobe Flash Lite 3 Player.

Re: what if Chumby Industries were to go away?

What about the dependence on the Chumby website?  I imagine that any hard coding that points to chumby.com could be changed in the firmware but the code that runs your website would need to be redone; presumably it is not open source?

BTW,  why was the light sensor removed?  It would seem to be a useful thing to have.

Re: what if Chumby Industries were to go away?

Well, even if our server code were open, it doesn't really help, because all of the widgets are owned/copyrighted by their respective authors and one would have to obtain explicit permission from each one to republish them.  Of course, one would also have to deal with the Flash Lite licensing issue. I would expect that if the firmware were to be replaced, it would be to connect to some other service, not some undead version of ours.

The light sensor was removed because it wasn't stable - at low light levels, it was extremely difficult to get a consistent reading - many alpha prototype users complained about the resulting "flicker" when we attempted to adjust the screen brightness based on the light sensor.  We felt in the long run that we'd be better off expending that cost on a microphone instead.

Re: what if Chumby Industries were to go away?

Chumby going away forever??...  Didn't you get a set of Charms when you received your Chumby?... just hang them on the sides of chumby and everything will be alright.

KingDave

Re: what if Chumby Industries were to go away?

Thanks! I forgot about the power of the Charms.  I feel better now.

Re: what if Chumby Industries were to go away?

OK, I understand why you removed the light sensor but with regard to the microphone, has anyone written any widgets which use it?

Re: what if Chumby Industries were to go away?

Also, while I'm sure that the microphone will find some uses (if it hasn't already), an IR emitter would be a very nice (and very low cost) addition to the base unit.

Re: what if Chumby Industries were to go away?

Actually it ought to have an IR emitter and receiver so that it could both control other devices (TV, cable, audio, etc.) and be controlled by a universal remote (or equivalent).

Re: what if Chumby Industries were to go away?

At the moment, there's nothing public that uses the microphone.  One issue is that the current version of Flash Lite does not support a microphone the way the desktop Flash does.

Internally, we have a number of experimental applications that use the mic, and at some point I expect some of those to work their way through the Product Management cycle and end up in the hands of users.

If you want to see the mic actually work, open a console on the chumby, and type:

arecord -f cd > /tmp/sound.wav

Talk for a few seconds (normal voice, no need to talk directly into the mic), then press Ctrl-C to stop recording.  Then type:

aplay /tmp/sound.wav

...and you should hear your recording.

11

Re: what if Chumby Industries were to go away?

Thanks, that's helpful.  I must say though that the mind reels at the potential privacy issues given a bedside alarm lock with microphone and network connection.

Re: what if Chumby Industries were to go away?

All under the control of you, the user

Re: what if Chumby Industries were to go away?

ihf wrote:

Thanks, that's helpful.  I must say though that the mind reels at the potential privacy issues given a bedside alarm lock with microphone and network connection.

Ha - no kidding - we have to give a *lot* of thought about how to protect users from "witty" developers.

A lot of people want us to put in a webcam, too, so it could be worse smile

14

Re: what if Chumby Industries were to go away?

You may want to consider a hardware switch that would disable the microphone (and any future webcam) in the device.  Software on/off obviously won't do.

Re: what if Chumby Industries were to go away?

A properly sandboxed software solution would suffice, and Flash currently supports a strong sandboxing model, much to the chagrin of several developers that want to run wild on the platform.

Note that all modern laptops have microphones with no hardware switch - nobody seems particularly concerned even on non-sandboxed operating systems with extremely poor security records.

I get your point, though.  This is not an area we'll approach lightly.

Re: what if Chumby Industries were to go away?

Having used the microphone, I am now only further convinced that the Chumby was made to be a VOIP machine (the microphone was sensitive enough to pick up my voice more than understandably from across a room).

17

Re: what if Chumby Industries were to go away?

I agree that many (most?) people accept having a microphone and in many cases a camera on their laptops but most people probably don't keep them turned on in their bedroom all the time (with connection to the network).  Sandboxing is certainly an obstacle to abuse but personally I'd be happier with a hardware switch.  I just think that a Chumby sitting in peoples homes or offices with sensitive microphones attached to the network is almost too attractive a challenge for hackers interested in valuable information or just entertainment.

Re: what if Chumby Industries were to go away?

Like Duane says, the mic and camera in laptops do not have a hardware switch. This is not an issue

If you're really convinced that it is, you can find all the schematics right here on the site to enable to you to fit a hardware switch around the mic input.

Re: what if Chumby Industries were to go away?

ihf wrote:

What about the dependence on the Chumby website?

You can use a Chumby totally separated from the chumby website. All you need is a usb-device with some certain files on it.

Re: what if Chumby Industries were to go away?

If there were a microphone input jack and audio output jack that would mute the mic and speaker when used you could just plug in an 1/8" (or whatever) plug to kill the microphone.  The added benefit would be the ability to plug in a headset for those possible VoIP uses.

I am also a bit concerned about the possibility of a live microphone on a 24x7 device sitting on my desk at work.  As noted above that could also be a problem with generic computers that often have microphones and cameras-  that is why many of my "nervous" coworkers choose to put tape over the camera and microphone on the employer-issued laptops...

Re: what if Chumby Industries were to go away?

I would actually like to use this functionality as a baby monitor. Is there a way to pipe the sound directly to another PC on the network? I know this is exactly the type of application that others are worried about, but this would be perfect for me.

-HuckFinn

Re: what if Chumby Industries were to go away?

huckfinn wrote:

I would actually like to use this functionality as a baby monitor. Is there a way to pipe the sound directly to another PC on the network? I know this is exactly the type of application that others are worried about, but this would be perfect for me.

You could use the netcat utility (http://www.vulnwatch.org/netcat/ - GNU version found at http://netcat.sourceforge.net/). I doubt that netcat has been ported to the Chumby, but that should be quite feasible.

Basically you can then on the Chumby do

arecord -f cd | nc address.of.pc 16365

- and on the pc you enter

nc -l 16365 > /dev/dsp

where /dev/dsp is the address of your sound device.

Alternatively you could pipe the sound into VLC in server mode and use VLC listening devices as the client. In theory you could then use your WiFi enabled cell phone and a on-board MP3 player to become the baby monitor listener. OR - even better - set up Asterisk and a SIP client on your WiFi enabled cell phone. With a bit of fiddling you would then be able to call a given phone number and listen in on your baby-monitor.

\Ruben

The first(?) Norwegian Chumby user!

Re: what if Chumby Industries were to go away?

rubenro,

That sounds good, but I will be honest I have no clue how to do this. I will dig in and see if I can figure it out, but if anyone else wants to give this a try and give some additional step by step instructions I would really appreciate it

-HuckFinn

Re: what if Chumby Industries were to go away?

3 questions.


1.  could I also save those sound files to my USB?
2.  what would happen if I could, and I used up all of the space on my USB?

and

3.  could chumby industries use the chumby to spy on the lives of all of its users?  like, can you read all of our incoming and (sometimes) outgoing mail, listen to our conversations and study our interests? (not that I think you'd ever do that, just wondering if you could.)

25 (edited by rubenro 2008-03-24 15:28:43)

Re: what if Chumby Industries were to go away?

sevc wrote:

3 questions.
1.  could I also save those sound files to my USB?

Yes - see post #10.


sevc wrote:

2.  what would happen if I could, and I used up all of the space on my USB?

Probably nothing would happen to the Chumby device except a error hidden to the end user claiming that the USB file system would be full.



sevc wrote:

3.  could chumby industries use the chumby to spy on the lives of all of its users?  like, can you read all of our incoming and (sometimes) outgoing mail, listen to our conversations and study our interests? (not that I think you'd ever do that, just wondering if you could.)

Everything is possible - in theory.

However, in practice, what you ask is not easy to achieve. First - the Chumby have too few input devices (screen + sound), secondly as long as the Chumby is not used a gateway your communication should be safe. The only "case" I see is  where your computer and your Chumby share the same WiFi connection - but given the open nature of the device this would quickly be known in the Chumby community.

There are easier way to spy on end users Internet behaviour than using the Chumby - just get your victims to install a "browser b

The first(?) Norwegian Chumby user!